44 million Ukrainians have been attacked by a ruthless dictator. European countries have invested 125 billion euro in defeating Russia. But forget all that, because a Fox News host says that defending democracy is not realistic, and this whole war thing is too expensive anyway.
It is time for the democratic countries to decouple from the failed US leadership and take the lead.
Russia must be defeated.
@randahl I agree. The United States as a nation is unreliable, even a failure.
Go your own way. We’re leaving ourselves behind, which is totally bonkers.
My oldest is already considering living and working in another country after graduating university.
I'm sorry but what is the ETO?
You understand that that would leave out Canada & you may want to invite Australia & New Zealand.
yes but what about Australia and New Zealand?
I'm thinking they might be a great asset as well
@randahl Russia cannot be defeated without nuclear war.
If Ukraine not getting NATO membership prevents nuclear war, then it’s a small price to pay
@randahl @Walter8100000 I have heard the same thing every week for the past 2 years and Russia has only continued to gain territory in Ukraine and loophole every sanction that was thrown at them
Don’t be surprised that I’m not buying it and that I don’t want Europe to become a nuclear wasteland. Ukraine can stay out of NATO
> "Russia cannot be defeated without nuclear war.[...]"
➡️ Some hundert years ago mankind "knew", the earth was flat.
> "[...]If Ukraine not getting NATO membership prevents nuclear war, then it’s a small price to pay"
➡️ No, it isn't. Because it questions the by international law guaranteed right of free choice of alliances.
@randahl
@thetemerian @randahl: Ukraine not getting NATO membership will precipitate the conditions under which nuclear warfare may become a reality, by promoting nuclear proliferation among other nations.
We could well see twice or even three times the number of nuclear-armed countries as a consequence, as the lesson is learnt that the only way to avoid nuclear blackmail is to be nuclear-armed oneself.
Not necessary to defeat Russia, it's enough to push them back. If all EU countries join their forces it is possible. Nuclear war is of course no option for both sides.
Sorry, @randahl but we in Europe have not invested 125 billion euro in Ukrainian defence. We sent mostly existing old equipment, which was VALUED at €100+ billion.
European defence investment remains ridiculously low for the threat we face, now doubled up by American occupation threats and poss withdrawal from NATO.
I have known for long that European politicians have been asleep at the wheel but as we mark 3 years of full scale war, we're about to find out just how much that's been the case.
I know, but it's not what it actually cost. As far as I know, when allies talk about the billions worth of equipment we contributed it's either the value of old stock (most of which was going to be scrapped anyway) or the cost of purchasing new equipment for ourselves (which isn't going to Ukraine). I know it all sounds very grand, but Ukraine hasn't received all that money, or the equipment it got wasn't worth that either... 🫤
Fk that lackey hegseth
@randahl
"Too expensive", yet Biden only provided $65 billion in military aid to Ukraine while Trump now wants to "cash in" on all that aid by taking $500 billion worth of Ukraine's rare earth minerals for himself, while he sits in meetings with Putin.
The US is now the global war machine, and Trump expects all the spoils and profits of war for himself.
He's giving Russia Crimea+ and expects minerals in return. He's giving Israel the West Bank and taking Gaza in return, divvying up the world.
I hope you do that.
I think it may be time for NATO to reconsider America's participation in NATO for a few years. And NATO needs to go head to head with Russia in Ukraine.
Randahl Fink
CANELA BLANCA
Pooblemoo
Steve Popovich
Bruce Mirken
WesDym
Nonya Bidniss
Steve Hersey
Raymond W Gallacher
Holden Green
Doug 🌈🇨🇦 
Sjaak K. 🇳🇱🇪🇺🍋
helgenug
martin lentink 🇪🇺 🇺🇦📎
Wenslauw
GeraintLlanfrancheta
Darcy
The Temerian 📡⛓️
Walter8100000 🇳🇱🇺🇦
DressToKILT
RAK
gekko3k
Andreas
Mark von Übelgarten
João Costa 💚🇵🇹🇪🇺🇬🇧🇺🇦
Pelican Dock Music
Cool Puppy
Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈
Gailen Olsonski
Ned Yeung
Chuckles
xs4me2
lord pthenq1
wimvdputte
Peter Brown
John Cook
BuckRogers1965
LisPi
Cyberspice
Charlie Stross