DeepHorizons
Randahl FinkThe US may have put a man on the moon, but Denmark put an entire population on free healthcare.
bws@randahl and the UK went even back 😉
John Gordon@randahl Do they include meds?
@jgordon yes. But to create an incentive not to consume unnecessary meds, we normally pay a part of the meds ourselves.
The chronically ill are exempt from this partial payment, and get their meds for free. People in hospital care are exempt too. Poor people can apply to become exempt.
That's more generous than most systems!
goedelchen
Over There@randahl @goedelchen @jgordon yes. Here in Ireland you pay for meds unless you have a means tested medical card. Though there is a scheme that caps the monthly amount you have to pay . It doesn’t cover everyone, or all meds. Lots of cracks in the system
Ridscherli@jgordon @randahl It's not generous: if enough people pay into the same pot, there is enough for hospitals, doctors, care professionals and meds.
This is how social insurance in Germany works (not sure if the danish system runs on taxes or insurance).
Of course you can always discuss the amount of input and output, but a healthcare system should people keep or make them again healthy.
This is how social insurance in Germany works (not sure if the danish system runs on taxes or insurance).
Of course you can always discuss the amount of input and output, but a healthcare system should people keep or make them again healthy.
Galder Gonzalez 
Rasmus Lindegaard
…might work for coffee…@randahl
I think opto and dental stuff was kicked out in German system to keep rates in check.
Something that needs mentioning is the hard cutoff rules for a lot of stuff. These discussions are needed in other systems to not always do everything possible but the stuff with maximum outcome in patient benefit. (replacement hip as one of those examples)
And having friends who worked in Kiel hospitals, there is some health tourism to Germany from Danes to speed stuff up.
andrei!@randahl @jgordon But what about profit? What about the economy? Imagine how much money can be made from people who are facing pain, suffering and death! From parents watching their children suffer. People who need an urgent ambulance ride. Mothers ready to give birth…
Actually don’t imagine - observe the costs of healthcare in the U.S. - defined by the Market!
WesDym@randahl We put a dozen men on the Moon, in six visits, but they were all over a half a century ago. When we brag about this, it's like the comedy trope of the middle-aged guy still bragging about his high school sports accomplishments. It's glaring admission that we haven't done anything as glorious since then.
@wesdym not entirely true. You did invent Taylor Swift! 😀
David BruchmannISS was unthinkable in that time, and newer satellites made many discoveries.
The Mars missions with the rovers have been scientifically important and much efforts have been put into physics concerning gravity waves and black holes.
Of course some steps on the moon are easier to show to the public.
I agree that reproducing the achievements of that time seems still being a challenge, but priorities grew more diverse.
Furthermore many experiments have been made in space concerning medicine, biology, physics, chemistry and probably more.
Partially I suppose the results could be used for common products on earth, including the materials and design for tools for space.
Regrettable I've no list about those achievements, if someone knows more, or has a link, that would be great.
Quark Maker@DavidBruchmann @wesdym @randahl The point Wes raises isn't simply a matter of whether we're doing anything important at all now; it's the specific genuflection this nation engages in about our past.
And by that one particular metric, the two greatest things the U.S. has done is go over to Europe and to Japan and win World War II (allies? anyone ever hear about the allies, without whom we likely wouldn't have won?) and the Moon Landings.
Our motto might as well be: "Look how great we were!"
Yeah I got that in some kind.
But therefore it might be important to point out other achievements.
The achievements concerning the win of wars get always tainted when people realize how cruel they are won, the firestorm is perhaps only comparable with napalm in Vietnam.
@DavidBruchmann @wesdym @randahl It's awful easy to brag about accomplishment you don't have to put any effort into to be able to claim.
I can easily remember seeing t-shirts for sale in Walmart and elsewhere which read "United States of Awesome". Honestly, it seemed rather disrespectful.
Indeed Americans showing the flag around on clothes and everything else leave probably no good impression internationally -- and seemingly nationally too to some people.
Discussion is getting diffuse now, not even sure about who exactly still mentions the wars and moon landing as accomplishments, of which level we're speaking here? Simple people from the street, politicians, scientists, universities?
jakofieldsRight, creating modern world problems 🥴
Dave Goldsmith
Toni M.That is a clear win for team Denmark, I tend to say ;-)
😀🚲@randahl But we subsidize car ownership, so instead of the happiest children*, we have the happiest old white men in the world, and reducing life expectancy keeps the costs of that program down.
* (oh wait, were the happiest children in the Netherlands because they have the better bike infrastructure)
@theklan @randahl only a few European countries are more willing to die for their cars than the US though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
Grimblob@randahl Not sure many nations are prepared to spend that much money on ostentatious posturing like keeping their population healthy...
Deborah Makarios@randahl Reminds me of Larry Norman's song The Great American Novel (which he oh so tactfully sang at the White House when asked to avoid anything political or religious).
"You say you beat the Russians to the moon,
and I say you starved your children to do it."
https://genius.com/Larry-norman-the-great-american-novel-lyrics
"You say you beat the Russians to the moon,
and I say you starved your children to do it."
https://genius.com/Larry-norman-the-great-american-novel-lyrics
Arthur van der Harg@DMakarios @randahl Such great lyrics and then he blows it with the very last line.
Kevin Karhan 
@randahl "free" means that it's financing is done differently as in via the state budget.
- I do think that's best but as a compromize maybe copy Germany's systemvrir the USA as a transitional option?
Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah@randahl as a trans person, I'd rather not live in Denmark for healthcare reasons, transgender healthcare in nordic countries is awful
@xgebi I have not heard that before. Would you care to elaborate?
@randahl there’s a whole subreddit about it, just an example https://www.reddit.com/r/transnord/comments/1gm3k7n/likely_moving_to_denmark_for_phd_how_difficult/
Or in this one it’s recommended to start transition in Poland and hopefully Danish doctors would honor it https://www.reddit.com/r/transnord/comments/1hcc7sa/i_have_some_questions_about_transitioning_in/
@xgebi thank you for providing more information.
I will need to read some more on this, because the reddit thread has a few challenges. One user is describing how the healthcare system treats a non-citizen, which maybe different from the general population. Another user talks about the healthcare system in Sweden, which has nothing to do with Danish healthcare.
But it is definitely an interesting topic, and I would like to know more.
Marcus Adams@randahl At this point I'd take the health care. The moon isn't going to pay my medical bills.
Humble Fan of Atty. WooDenmark, eh? Do they speak English there?
@BillMcGuire you are talking to a Dane.
86 percent of Danes speak English, because English is a mandatory language from primary school through highschool.
good to know, Randahl. Thank you. I am mildly researching a less volatile, safer place to live for us 2 older folks. I appreciate any insights you might be willing to share on that issue. Have a superior day/night. bill
@BillMcGuire do consider Norway too. Their nature is beautiful, and the country is among the wealthiest in the world.
just shopping right now, Randahl. Thanks for the tip, though.
@randahl total out of pocket for an organ transplant in Australia: $120 on an optional test. Poor healthcare is only normal in very poor countries and the US.
zombywoof
solitarywalker@randahl The US only put a man on the moon for a few days. Denmark’s free healthcare is longer lasting.
Mix Mistress Alice💄@randahl While putting whales in blood baths.
@MixMistressAlice the country of Denmark has no whaling.
The sovereign country of The Faroe Islands kills 800 whales per year, and yes, The Faroe Islands is formally a part of The Kingdom of Denmark. But politically the whaling is a decision under the Faroese parliament.
The whales killed are pilot whales which are not an endangered species.
From an ethical standpoint, I think those 800 whales are insignificant in comparison to the 130,000,000 pigs slaughtered in the US every year.
Mix Mistress Alice 💄 (@[email protected])
Mansplain me a post. Get blocked. No time to waste.
hanselot@MixMistressAlice @randahl Whataboutism at its best at the same time as you come with accusations of mansplaining when you were corrected.
You should work on your arguments, not your blocking skills.
fmc01@randahl Many countries have Free Universal Healthcare see map - in every country this has to be paid for from general Government Revenue and sometimes as in Australia a proportionate contribution according to one’s income level. The American Health system of every person for themselves is only marginally more humane than Cockfighting.
@frankcat you are right, although many of these countries have an endurance based model, whereas the Danish system is entirely state based.
Jeff Phillips@frankcat @randahl I appreciate your contribution to this already interesting post, but I feel it is an exaggeration to say it is every person for themselves. The only hospital in my rural county in Indiana reports that at 60% of their patients are using Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government funded health insurance. Note that these are not the normal targets of hate used in arguments against welfare programs. My county is >95% white.
@DrJay @randahl Yes you are right it is an exaggeration and clearly the system cannot work for the elderly or the very poor - but why would anyone think that the US health insurance system works for anybody except the insurance companies and the wealthy - the fact that most health insurance is paid by the employer makes people afraid and vulnerable.