Mastodawn

I might be a little crazy, but I like to browse news sites in a virtual machine, without a script or ad blocker. I've started doing this just to be reminded of how the other half lives.

E.g, when was the last time you visited Yahoo News without a script or ad blocker installed? Or MSNBC or WaPo or virtually any major news site w/out these things? It's a full frontal assault of loud videos that launch and play on their own, and pop-ups and pop-unders and 97 pieces of third-party Javascript.

So not only are they typically aiming a firehose of extraneous and distracting stuff at you, each one of those ad relationships offers the possibility of malicious ads running on your machine.

It kind of seems like we don't talk enough about how this aspect of news websites really does turn people off of reading the news from the original source.

@briankrebs was trying WinApps out and launched Edge and holy fuck the sheer onboarding experience is pain

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs it's basically Homer Simpson's personal web page

Kevin Leecaster Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs
I think that viewing the commercials that our neighbors are viewing is an important way to keep a finger on the pulse of the community.

You're right though that the bandwidth and time taken up by their attempt to make a living via advertisements probably does keep a lot of people from paying attention to the news.

Molenaar Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs For these purposes, I have script that calls firefox with a newly created temporary directory and passes that directory with the -profile option.

This way, you have a throwaway browser.

It is inspired on https://attackllama.com/start-firefox-throwaway-session

Sean Leavey: Documentation

Cassandrich Nov 23, 2024

@molenaar I want this but with a locked down prefs.js and UBO preinstalled in the temp profile dir.

Molenaar Nov 24, 2024

@dalias My script is as follows:

#!/bin/bash
if [ "$1" = '-CP' ];then
PROFDIR="$2"
shift 2
else
PROFDIR="$(mktemp -d)"
fi
if [ "$1" = '-UP' ];then
cp -r "$2"/* "$PROFDIR"/
shift 2
fi
firefox -no-remote -private -profile "$PROFDIR" "$@"

So you can create a profile with the -CP option and use it later with the -UP option. You can therefore use profiles that are not "factory clean".

The Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉Nov 23, 2024

@molenaar @briankrebs There's also firejail which creates a disposable sandbox every time you run it.

@briankrebs it's honestly insane when you think about it. No other medium is this drowned in advertising. Print media ads are fine. Heck, even TV ads are practically pleasant comparatively.

knapjack Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs It's worse on mobile, where sometimes you're left with this Oklahoma shaped window of original text, surrounded by sometimes multiple video ads that reappear after closing, leaving hardly any room to scroll much less read the content.

It feels like a scene from Idiocracy.

Daniel Rigal 🇪🇺 🦣Nov 22, 2024

@knapjack @briankrebs
I have followed links on mobile, scrolled, scrolled, scrolled back up again, failed to find the actual page content and given up. I am not exaggerating. This has happened quite a few times.

Alan Langford 🇨🇦🧤🧊摏 Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs At the other end of the spectrum, I have a tool that fetches a page and strips all the markup save for links, headings, paragraphs, italics and bold out of a page, then dumps it to my browser. For me much of the web looks like it's 1996. 🤓

INIT_6 Nov 22, 2024

@alan @briankrebs

The 'Reader View' Extension is similar for others who would like to do the same. It can also bypass soft paywalls. The best feature, though, is to reformat the page and text into something readable.

derptron Nov 22, 2024

@INIT6 @alan @briankrebs I'm always amazed at how many paywalls it bypasses and which companies. Some have caught on, but the ones that haven't probably never will because it makes no difference to them--I don't think they even see a second download of the page.

It's a developer mindset that causes this: Some just do what they think passes the criteria of whatever stupid thing their bosses are saying to do this time. Never bother to understand WHY they're asking.

Reinout van Schouwen Nov 23, 2024

@INIT6
Why an extension? Firefox has Reader mode built-in.
@alan @briankrebs

Jeff C Nov 22, 2024

@alan @briankrebs A few years ago I got so disgusted with the ads that I wrote a C# program that does exactly the same thing. Then when I posted it on gitHub I noticed, hey, several other folks have done exactly the same 🤷‍♂️

https://github.com/JeffDChapman/SimpleBrowser

GitHub - JeffDChapman/SimpleBrowser: Stripped Down web Browser

Stripped Down web Browser. Contribute to JeffDChapman/SimpleBrowser development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

(((Klefstadmyr)))Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I can't. It's not possible for me to read anything in that shitstorm.

Jason Tschohl Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Don't need to. It's bad enough when my wife hands me her phone to look at something.

I run a Pi-hole on my network so my phone doesn't see that garbage but, my wife is one of the 5 people on earth that click on ads and wants her device excluded from the filtering.

I can't stand using her phone. It's honestly distracting and obnoxious.

Kate Nyhan is changing servers Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs
I know people who prefer to read scholarly journal articles on PubMed Central (a govt-run repository with a pretty clean user interface and no ads) rather than the journal's webpage, for similar reasons.

Warner Crocker Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs News and other content has become interstitial to ads. Fill the "column inches" to have enough space for the ad inventory.

Chris Mackay 🇨🇦Nov 22, 2024

@WarnerCrocker @briankrebs It’s always been a cliché — well back into the heyday of newspapers — that reporters write the stuff that keeps the ads from touching.

Michael Tomasek Nov 22, 2024

(Operating System chosen * how many hours spent hardening it) = Crazy score

Since you are running with no script blockers, no ad blockers, and likely 10 instances of Bonzi Buddy swinging around on the screen, etc. then I'd rate it as fun, not crazy!

BrianKrebs Nov 22, 2024

@michaeltomasek Did I mention it's a Linux VM?

Michael Tomasek Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs <Subtly pulls scorecard back out> So are we talking Mint/Fedora/Ubuntu-like or Qubes?

katzenberger 🇺🇦Nov 22, 2024

"#RSS or you don't exist".

2xfo Nov 22, 2024

@katzenberger @briankrebs
I only recently discovered the joy of RSS. I wish i had bothered years ago, it's so nice to curate my own news feed without any click bait social media posts, or paywalls, or ads.

Steinbrecher Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Let’s bring RSS readers back! Never gave up mine and can’t be bothered with overloaded news (or other) websites. Besides, you’ve got everything you want neatly categorised and in one spot.

BrianKrebs Nov 22, 2024

@steinbrecher Mine never went away. We have a huge number of readers who consume our content this way now exclusively. The sucky part is the folks who read through RSS don't often visit the site, and when they do they almost always block my ads, even though there is zero third-party content on it.

the other sucky part about leaving full-feed RSS is that a ridiculous number of blogs and websites simply republish my RSS feed in full on their own sites, without once linking to the original source.

jupiterboy Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs It's as if the easily measurable has obscured any vestige of common sense.

ck Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs fwiw all the normal folks are fairly ad blind - I see their machines and have a visual retch and they look at me questioning what the problem even is (I install adblockers on everyones machine anyway)

blhue Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs My home network is ad-free (mostly) due to a pi-hole. This itself is sublime. I also use @littlesnitch and various other measures to counter intrusive junk. The moment I get on my work VPN I get bombarded with ads and it's so glaringly bad. I think, "this is what normal people see" and am grateful I do not. Thankfully, while on the work VPN the vast majority of the sites I interact with are not those laden with ads (AWS console, tech related sites, etc.), but it's still obvious.

x8b0a1a Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs do you mean tor-browser in a disposable VM?

rthonpm Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs At this point ice used an ad blocker for so long I've forgotten just how bad it is out there (though your site is one I have unblocked).

brian Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I never use an ad or script blocker (other than whatever firefox does by default) - I simply don't visit sites that engage in obnoxious behavior. Highly recommend doing this vs. trying to work around the ads, give you clarity on which sites are worth visiting. If sites want my traffic they can fix their nonsense.

Fleur Vervenne Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs i hate pop-ups with exit pop-ups, that have exit pop-ups on the exit pop-up of the exit pop-ups exit pop-up.

Deb Nam-Krane HAS MOVED Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs oh my god, why? When I've had to get on my husband or kids computers to look at something I start hyperventilating.

Nick Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs you're a glutton for punishment. I'll stick to the zen whitespace experience, thanks. 😂😂

derptron Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Your concept taken to the extreme:

https://www.qubes-os.org/

Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

Qubes is a security-oriented, free and open-source operating system for personal computers that allows you to securely compartmentalize your digital life.

Qubes OS

Sivation Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I'm reminded of the scene in Ready Player One where EvilCorp shows what they intend to do once they have control.
https://youtu.be/KpPE85Jogjw?si=qEkA7r3q4_XQzb7K&t=9

Ready Player One - Nolan Sorrento sells ads

YouTube

vashbear Nov 22, 2024

The end user experience is terrible.
This is one reason why kids/young adults bypass news sites completely and get news from TicToc or podcasts.

Crappy news sites also provide an opening for LLMs. AI brings a whole host of issues, but one good thing they can do is to ignore ads when it gathers info from various sites and give an ad-free summary.

Jargoggles Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs
You understand people better when you understand the kinds of things they're exposed to.

A while back, I started delving into what was happening in conspiracy and alt-right spaces to help me understand how people in my family got the way they are. It's really emotionally taxing and I pace myself with it, but what I've ended up with is a pretty good insight into what is now a distressingly powerful political base.

@briankrebs I seem to recall a supply chain attack that impacted a bunch of news sites a few years ago?

Jeffrey Nov 22, 2024

@mttaggart @briankrebs we are probably thinking about the same attack: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hundreds-of-us-news-sites-push-malware-in-supply-chain-attack/

Hundreds of U.S. news sites push malware in supply-chain attack

The compromised infrastructure of an undisclosed media company is being used by threat actors to deploy the SocGholish JavaScript malware framework (also known as FakeUpdates) on the websites of hundreds of newspapers across the U.S.

BleepingComputer

@jtig @briankrebs That's the one, yep

Daniel Rigal 🇪🇺 🦣Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs
I guess this is how you maximise ad revenue when you have already made peace with the fact that nobody will ever visit your site for a second time.

Leta_Darnell Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Times like these, I am actually thankful I am both nearly deaf and have no speakers

Baird Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs it's a flood the zone with content approach to keep us from both absorbing more than the headline and thinking about anything deeply.

Mark Vanderbeeken Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs @ericfreyss You may want to consider rss (with Inoreader as an rss reader).

Prokofy Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I stopped going to Business Insider due to their annoying pop-ups of videos but Yahoo and other sites don't bother me at all, perhaps they have a video in the lower right-hand corner but I ignore it. I don't use ad-blockers. I tune them out, it's easier somehow.

Don Holloway Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs It is bad.

It begs the question who is paying for that thinking they are reaching people?

Aaron Mahler Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Was on the west coast for the last six months. I knew enough to take a Pi with me to add pi-hole to the apartment network for the duration. In the hours before I installed it, I was bowled over with the river of effluent on the few websites I visited. I had a moment of “what the hell!?” before I remembered and scrambled to set it up.

Seth is Pissed Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs never thought about the malicious ads part.

Andres Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs Perhaps this is why "the other half" gets so much of their news from social media instead of traditional outlets?

Karl Auerbach Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs It is surprising how much good a few entries in /etc/hosts can do. I've got the following and it not only speeds up web browsing by a noticeable degree but it also causes a lot of ads to simply not be there.

127.0.0.1 google-analytics.com www.google-analytics.com ssh-google.analytics.com doubleclick.net googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 www.googletagmanager.com googletagmanager.com
127.0.0.1 accounts.google.com
127.0.0.1 prodmg2.blob.core.windows.net

fedops 💙💛Nov 22, 2024

@karlauerbach block everything yahoo as well and that's literally all ads gone.
@briankrebs

Nitin Khanna Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I've never thought of doing that! Must be a visceral experience, seeing the News Internet as enshittified as it is today!

I went to one site recently where uBlock wasn't doing everything it could and I saw two autoplay videos. Two! Why do they think it's ok to autoplay a whole different video in a whole different section when I killed off the first one?!

omegatotal Nov 22, 2024

The last time I got a piece of malware was while I was on a news site and had an adobe product installed.

ever since, I have refused to install adobe products and have adblock/ublock/etc installed and cranked to 11

If a site blocks me because I am protecting my self from malvertising and malware ads, and I cant get around it in 10 seconds via dev tools, the site is not worth my time any more and I move on.

Morgan ⚧️Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I have a news section on my phone that automatically opens articles with Google, so I regularly have to press the share button and open it in Firefox in order to read the article at all. Sometimes the ads actually cover the content so it's physically impossible to read without an ad blocker

This is Hell Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs “when was the last time you visited Yahoo News without a script or ad blocker installed?”

When I go to my Dad's to fix his computer!

Scott Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs I am continually astonished when I use someone else’s machine on the naked internet. How do people put up with this?

jd 🔆 Account moved March 22 2026 to ottawa.place Nov 22, 2024

@briankrebs
It would be interesting and probably very revealing to do a study on the amount of electricity used and the amount of greenhouse gases released worldwide as a result of advertising alone.
#climate