Today is a good day to remember the time I told my Jewish grandmother, who had been an officer in the Red Army all through WWII, about the debate over punching Nazis.
"This is trick question," she said, narrowing her eyes. "When you are done punching, Nazi is still alive, yes?"
@evacide Yes, that's one boundary condition. Corpses attract unwelcome law-enforcement attention. The point is made here:
“Don’t worry,” Lansky reportedly said. “We’ll marinate em, we won’t ice em.”
Quite the quote.
And marinate them they did.
@joeinwynnewood @evacide IKR?
There was a similar group in Britain.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/remembering-the-43-group
Also back then, the usual suspects were condemning the 'violence':
"... provoked an angry response from Louis Hydelman, who sat on the Board of Deputies of British Jews. Accusing the young commandos of acting ‘counterproductively’, Hydelman ordered the Group to disband."
As for me, colour me philosophical. As long as the Nazis live to tell the tale it's more like an 'enhanced debating technique'...
"Their struggle should be remembered."
I live in a western suburb of Philadelphia with a sizable Jewish community. There are several others among the city suburbs in both NJ and PA.
I very much fear we will be targets of deadly violence as happened at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh.
Our synagogues and community centers all have private security now, armed at on at least major holidays. This will have to be increased ...
I think and always armed.
The hate unleashed in 2016 was bad. This time will be worse. The baseline is higher and the Nazis were not just ignored by the GOP this time around, but accepted into their ranks.
Yes, we definitely must remember the Newark Minutemen, the 43 Group and the others.
@maxh @daniel @evacide It took a couple more battles. There were the April and Dec 2017 humiliating defeats by anti-Fascist fighters in front of the White House. Both of these ended with him being pursued to a cab, and in the first case losing that cab and having to get another.
He got big-time maced in Charlottesville, plus buried under maybe 1,000 pounds of cops for refusing to vacate the park.
He tried to come back with a campus speaking tour, but first in Florida and finally in Michigan these went poorly for him. The "Battle of Michigan" in Spring 2018 seems to have been the end of him and his influence.
In 2016 the NPI/Spencer/alt-right wing of the Nazis were the most dangerous people Trump brought to the party. In 2020 it was the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and 3%'ers whose fortunes rose after Cville made the hard alt-righr look so bad.
Today it's the hardcore theocrats. Worst of all is the New Apostolic Reformation with their "seven mountains mandate" demanding religious extremist control of government, media, family, and so much more. These folks played a major role in vetting Trump's SCOTUS picks last time around.
@evacide wow I had honestly never thought about that. So there are actually two problems with punching a Nazi.
One, as pointed out by Aamer Rahman is that it's only one Nazi.
And the other, as pointed out by your grandmother, is that they're still alive afterwards.
@Iris_IllEra Including the people who had no alignment with either, but happened to live in the Bloodlands.
TBH, if the Soviet military had been run better, it could have cut the loss numbers at the very least to one half, perhaps even to one third, of the actual death count. The massive losses are, to a significant dagree, because Stalin was afraid of generals who could strategise too well, and (to a lesser degree) surviving veterans with front line experience.
@evacide Are you suggestng history _should_ repeat itself?
https://www.history.com/news/dutch-resistance-teenager-killed-nazis-freddie-oversteegen
> Truus quietly pointed her gun in the direction of the Nazi and shot him dead.
>
> “That wasn’t an assignment,” she said. “But I don’t regret it . . . We were dealing with cancerous tumors in our society that you had to cut out like a surgeon.”
https://nypost.com/2019/12/14/meet-the-dutch-girls-who-seduced-nazis-and-lured-them-to-their-deaths/
Well, not if you do it right …
@evacide In 2016 and 2017 we used to chant, "all night, all day, punch a Nazi in the face" and at one point I remarked that my father's generation (WWII) did a lot more to Nazis than punch them.
You don't PUNCH a Nazi with an M-1 Garand rifle. You shoot them if they are inside 600 yards or so, if they are within 6 feet you can bayonet them or smash them with the heel or toe of the butt.
Then there's artillery: a 14 or 16 inch battleship shell fired at a Nazi machine gun bunker on the beaches of Normandy carries a lot of punch for the Nazis receiving it.
Yes, dead Nazis are a royal mess of paperwork these days, punching and macing them do have the advantage of bypassing that.
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