Part of my joy comes from blocking angry dudes that feel entitled to engagement. Highly recommend it! 👍🏿
I don't have to talk with everybody. There are so many people that are genuinely curious and open minded, that I just don't have to deal with these dudes.
There's an effectively infinite supply of "dudes on the internet." There is absolutely no shortage. The marginal cost of blocking one, is close to zero.
"Well, what about the marketplace of ideas huh? Not very inclusive of you!"
OK! 🤣
Paradox of tolerance and all that.
I don't see it as a paradox at all. You cannot include all ideas, because one of the loudest ideas, is "We should silence the ideas of Black people!" 🙂🙃
You cannot include this idea without excluding other ideas. So absolute inclusion shouldn't even be anyone's goal. It's certainly not mine.
And dealing with annoying people online can be exhausting. Even if they're not malicious! Me doing "racism 101" individually for millions of people, just doesn't work.
@rakoo @mekkaokereke That analogy is good.
I use a different one: I *value* tolerance. I want to maximize it.
In that equation Trump’s brownshirts are a negative number and should be removed in order to maximize.
@rakoo there are different versions of that (including hairy game theoretical ones) but you're probably thinking of Yonatan Zunger's essay.
And even if you're not I recommend it.
https://medium.com/extra-extra/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376
@darcher @rakoo @mekkaokereke The hypothetical analogy of “the monster”, a god who torments non-believers with divine wrath gets turned on its head when it’s revealed that there never was a monster to torment anyone. In that scenario, the real “monster” is the divisive ideology itself!
Groups of people deluding themselves into killing one another due to their beliefs in something which never existed in the first place. Fear begetting needless death.
@raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke
I also quite like the contract/treaty angle (and it was super helpful to me years back), but I also feel like tolerance just isn't the best word. "Ignoring/allowing/enabling bigotry" is a fundamentally different (and opposite!) behavior from "trying to build and maintain a safe community." Yet both are "tolerance"?
wtf
Like, is "tolerance" even a thing? Intolerance sure is! And so is objecting to that intolerance. But tolerance?
@matt @raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke My personal favorite framing of this was “Tolerance is a peace treaty”… which suggested the opposite of tolerance wasn’t incivility. It was “The Troubles” as in Ireland.
https://medium.com/extra-extra/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376
(Originally seen via thread on G+, so .. y’know, old)
@btanderson @mekkaokereke @matt @raymierussell @rakoo Right. That was above. I'm suggesting "tolerance is a peace treaty"
"Contract" has a lot of baggage around enforcement mechanics and breach mechanisms that (I think) confuse things in this specific analogy, where "peace treaty" seems more on point
sorry for showing up out of nowhere with this, but have you all seen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-of-our-former-democracy/id1767428498 ?
podcast looking at the troubles and beyond in northern Ireland and learning from it to apply to the present and not make similar mistakes
@ApostateEnglishman @rakoo @mekkaokereke
Ones does not simply break the law of non-contradiction.
@mekkaokereke
It's almost like:
@mekkaokereke Once I stopped feeling bad about blocking people my enjoyment of social media increased.
No, I don't have to listen to bad faith arguments. It's freedom of speech, not obligation to listen. 
@dan613 @mekkaokereke
Maybe it is because USA was born with that principle of free speech that they have a hard time what it meant not having it. Free speech is about not being persecuted by officials for stating an opinion, about the state, about the church, about science. It has never been about gaining access to a platform or a right to a public.
Free speech applied to hate speech gives them the right to not be jailed for stating their opinion in a KKK rag.
Free speech also means that everyone is free to set up rule in their media, social or otherwise, to select opinions it wants published.
The US has never really had free speech. Ever.🤷🏿♂️
There's never been a point in US history when Black folk could speak freely without severe consequences from their government. By severe consequences, I mean government programs designed to falsely imprison or execute them.
Slavery was obvious.
To Jim Crow: cops & politicians targeting "uppity" negroes.
To COINTELPRO.
To "Black Identity extremists."
US free speech usually just means "Let the nazis talk"
1/N
And the most obvious: voting is arguably the most important form of free speech. But it's 2024, and there has never been a single presidential election in US history where it was as easy for Black people to vote as it is for white people to vote.
I don't think most folk in the US realize how shameful that is. We just... kinda accept it. We don't realize that we're the only major country that restricts the free speech of *an entire race* this way.
2/N
The US government had a specific program for "neutralizing" people who they perceived as a threat. Neutralizing is... what it sounds like.
MLK was targeted by the US government for neutralization. For his speech!
All civil rights leaders were targeted, because saying "There should be less racism, maybe?" was seen as dangerous. And MLK was perceived to be "The most dangerous negroe" because of his "I have a dream" speech.
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/111759677741315727
3/N
Attached: 1 image "Personally, I believe in the light of King's powerful demagogic speech yesterday he stands head and shoulders over all other Negro leaders put together when it comes to influencing great masses of Negroes. We must mark him now, if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this Nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro and national security." - FBI Assistant Director Sullivan. I guess Sullivan and Big Fed had a different dream? https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/109699128363227842
@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
This is a "yes and" post.
Look what they're trying right now with LGBTQ+ people. Its to the point where some are claiming that existing in public is 'grooming.' Never mind even trying to speak.
Freedom of speech has (nearly always) meant "freedom for normative cis het white men to say the most sayable".
I quit believing the liberal freedom of speech fetish when I realised it only ever applies to Klan marches and almost never to queers.
@celesteh @mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
This comes up every single year with the 'kink at pride' discourse, too. 'But what if we take our children to this parade! This [historical protest march celebration about sex and identity] needs to [conform to what I think is appropriate as not a member of the community or intended audience].'
This happens -every year-, and it's legal and free speech, but they just don't like LGBTQ+ people existing in any meaningful way.
@louis theres an example in the post. Various states are trying to make it illegal for trans people to use bathrooms, but cannot and will not prevent fascist rallies. Legislation against drag queen events for children is a free speech issue.
Meanwhile, the UK is extremely far from perfect, but does not have a first amendment, so holocaust denial is actively illegal at universities.
@celesteh They're *trying* to make it illegal, but our 1st amendment is exactly what is preventing them. In my home state of Florida, they tried to enact a drag ban and the courts not only overturned it, they mocked the state for its audacity.
Freedom of speech is exactly what protected us, so that's not an example of it failing us.
It has not protected us historically. It's nice that it protects us now sometimes, and I certainly hope it lasts, but this is relatively new. And, again, if it's freedom of expression, this ought to include gender expression and toilet access, but it doesn't always.
@celesteh Gender expression, absolutely, totally agreed. But I think the toilet bit is more of a 14A thing.
And while it may not have protected us throughout history... it did protect someone's right to advocate for the changes that got us to where we are today, just as it protects our right to demand a better tomorrow.
I mean, it specifically did not protect our right to organise. The original gay magazines were illegal to mail. Groups met in secret. More public gatherings, like bars, had to bribe the police. Stonewall was literally a riot.
@celesteh In 1960, California made it a crime to distribute anonymous pamphlets. It was struck down due to the 1st Amendment.
In 1969, vague laws against nebulous "obscenity" were struck down for the same reason.
Like every right, we always have to fight to extend it to every individual. But the 1st Amendment is the basis for that fight happening in the first place, and is the justification we can rely on to fight for our freedom.
And yet the US lags behind some countries that don't have the same kind of text. The Netherlands has better protections for us and less restrictions on obscenity.
In the US, we're protected only because activism has put us in the realm of the sayable, not because of the amendment. That we now discuss this in terms of the amendment is only because our legal system references it.
These protections are not guaranteed by this amendment. They're a result of social norms that can easily slip away.
So no, the 1st amendment isn't real, if it's "Yes, you can say what you want! But if you say stuff and you're Black, your government might murder you for it, under an official tax-payer funded program."
Similarly, the 2nd amendment isn't real either. Because it's "Yes, you can be armed if you want! But if you're armed and you're Black, there's a pretty good chance that your government will murder you in the street without hesitation, and without consequence."
4/4
@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
an example from Israel: the constitution says you can't be elected to parliament, among other things, if you solicitate racism, or if you've supported a military or terrorist action against Israel.
the current Minister of National Security has been convicted multiple times for solicitation of racism and supporting terrorist organisation. he's also advocated for the murder of PM Rabin in the day.
@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
If you're white in America and have a gun and point it and shoot it at a former president and actively campaigning presidential candidate, they'll capture you alive.
If you're Black in America and have a toy gun, they'll shoot you dead within minutes, if not seconds.
@auka_kapak @mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613 tangent: black freedmen were a large portion of the army that fought for the independence of Chile and Peru
this is not taught
@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
The wealthy, on the other hand, are citizens united who buy non-wealthy's belief system
@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613 The US has always been great at pretending. They pretend free speech is for everyone and absolute. They pretend anybody should can carry around a gun. They pretend pro-life and Christian beliefs are just.
It is all a charade. And that charade has been made more visible and overt…
The funny thing about the marketplace of ideas phrase is actual markets are often regulated so they don't get flooded by unsafe and poor quality knockoffs of trusted goods. So if anything banning hate speech is totally a thing we should expect in a thriving "marketplace"
@ReverendMoose @mekkaokereke I like the idea that tolerance is an agreement, not a principal. It is not paradoxical to be intolerant of intolerance, any more than you need to believe someone that's dishonest.
I commend people that do - I think it's noble to try to work across difference - but I don't think it's required of us.
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