Mastodawn

Nov 9, 2024

Paradox of tolerance and all that.

I don't see it as a paradox at all. You cannot include all ideas, because one of the loudest ideas, is "We should silence the ideas of Black people!" 🙂🙃

You cannot include this idea without excluding other ideas. So absolute inclusion shouldn't even be anyone's goal. It's certainly not mine.

And dealing with annoying people online can be exhausting. Even if they're not malicious! Me doing "racism 101" individually for millions of people, just doesn't work.

Dan Neuman 🇨🇦Nov 10, 2024

@mekkaokereke That's my perspective as well. You get more free speech if you exclude hate speech. If you include hate speech, then you lose *all* the speech from the victims. It's a loss for society because minorities have the unique perspectives you don't have in the dominant culture. Edit: I mean, from a market of ideas perspective. It is just wrong from a societal perspective.

ktp_programming Nov 10, 2024

@dan613 @mekkaokereke
Maybe it is because USA was born with that principle of free speech that they have a hard time what it meant not having it. Free speech is about not being persecuted by officials for stating an opinion, about the state, about the church, about science. It has never been about gaining access to a platform or a right to a public.

Free speech applied to hate speech gives them the right to not be jailed for stating their opinion in a KKK rag.

Free speech also means that everyone is free to set up rule in their media, social or otherwise, to select opinions it wants published.

The US has never really had free speech. Ever.🤷🏿‍♂️

There's never been a point in US history when Black folk could speak freely without severe consequences from their government. By severe consequences, I mean government programs designed to falsely imprison or execute them.

Slavery was obvious.

To Jim Crow: cops & politicians targeting "uppity" negroes.

To COINTELPRO.

To "Black Identity extremists."

US free speech usually just means "Let the nazis talk"

1/N

And the most obvious: voting is arguably the most important form of free speech. But it's 2024, and there has never been a single presidential election in US history where it was as easy for Black people to vote as it is for white people to vote.

I don't think most folk in the US realize how shameful that is. We just... kinda accept it. We don't realize that we're the only major country that restricts the free speech of *an entire race* this way.

2/N

https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/111759677741315727

The US government had a specific program for "neutralizing" people who they perceived as a threat. Neutralizing is... what it sounds like.

MLK was targeted by the US government for neutralization. For his speech!

All civil rights leaders were targeted, because saying "There should be less racism, maybe?" was seen as dangerous. And MLK was perceived to be "The most dangerous negroe" because of his "I have a dream" speech.

3/N

mekka okereke :verified: (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image "Personally, I believe in the light of King's powerful demagogic speech yesterday he stands head and shoulders over all other Negro leaders put together when it comes to influencing great masses of Negroes. We must mark him now, if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this Nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro and national security." - FBI Assistant Director Sullivan. I guess Sullivan and Big Fed had a different dream? https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/109699128363227842

Hachyderm.io

So no, the 1st amendment isn't real, if it's "Yes, you can say what you want! But if you say stuff and you're Black, your government might murder you for it, under an official tax-payer funded program."

Similarly, the 2nd amendment isn't real either. Because it's "Yes, you can be armed if you want! But if you're armed and you're Black, there's a pretty good chance that your government will murder you in the street without hesitation, and without consequence."

4/4

amy tech (bones)Nov 10, 2024

@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613 IIRC a lot of the gun control laws (and even the term "assault weapon") on the west coast had nothing to do with recognizing the danger of guns. It was because white people were afraid of the Black Panthers.

@amy @ktp_programming @dan613

Facts!

MaybeMyMonkeys Nov 10, 2024

@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613 by the people, for the people, has the caveat that people are old rich white men

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️Nov 10, 2024

@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
a statement that is true for the US but also every other country:
a constitution is, and always has been, a slighly-empowered list of wishes.
go through every country's history and you'll see a *ton* of cases of the constitution being violated with impunity.
enshrining rights in the constitution is fine and all. but racists/fascists with enough power won't let something as frail as a constitution stop them.

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️Nov 10, 2024

@mekkaokereke @ktp_programming @dan613
an example from Israel: the constitution says you can't be elected to parliament, among other things, if you solicitate racism, or if you've supported a military or terrorist action against Israel.

the current Minister of National Security has been convicted multiple times for solicitation of racism and supporting terrorist organisation. he's also advocated for the murder of PM Rabin in the day.