nixCraft 🐧

Tim Apple: We are unique. We do in-house industrial design for all of our computers and iToys that you love. Everything is shiny and tiny, and we think you are going to love it.

User: Buys a new M4 Mac Mini but notices the power button is at the bottom.

User: I solved the power button problem:

Nov 9, 2024 at 11:40amWeb
Show threadnixCraft 🐧Nov 9, 2024
For some reason, this Mac Mini comes with a removable SSD. However, RAM, CPU, GPU, and everything else is glued to the motherboard.
Show threadarutazNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Maybe because the SSD can wear out, but not the other stuff 🤷‍♂️
Show threadAlonely0 🦀 🇪🇺Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft isn't it just the NAND flash? IIRC Its controller is supposed to be inside the SoC, so you need to reprogram it to actually swap NAND flashes, but I don't know how feasible that is.
Show threadDan HerbertNov 9, 2024

@Alonely0 Someone on YouTube has already upgraded the NAND chips and it worked alright. The process definitely isn't something everyone can do though...

https://youtu.be/cJPXLE9uPr8

UPGRADING a Brand NEW M4 Mac mini

YouTube
Show threadUlf J. FroitzheimNov 9, 2024
@danherbert @Alonely0 A competent daredevil can do this and make it. I would destroy the machine for sure.
Show threadMarcus KidaNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft well RAM, CPU and GPU are one SoC. I‘m not sure if there would be an interface providing enough bandwidth to make them swappable. But if there would I‘d be a huge fan of it.
Show threadFlohEinsteinNov 9, 2024
@marcus ever built an x86 or x64 desktop computer?
Show threadMarcus KidaNov 9, 2024
@FlohEinstein yes many, but none with an SoC.
Show threadFlohEinsteinNov 9, 2024
@marcus IMO SoC in PCs is just an euphemism for "We give the customer a small speed boost but make it absolutely unserviceable and keep out competitors". I mean for the average Apple customer, will they ever perform a task on the computer where the time and bandwidth between CPU and RAM or GPU really matter? (Apart from virtualizing software that would have run without virtualization if it weren't that SoC 😉)
Show threadMarcus KidaNov 9, 2024
@FlohEinstein I‘m qualified to discuss wether an SoC makes sense win this case, but it definitely makes interfaces for swappable hardware more complex. That’s all I want to say.
Show threadDelricNov 9, 2024
@FlohEinstein @marcus also for the average Apple customer: will they ever swap out RAM or storage? Big nope. The benefits of an integrated SoC are numerous and outweighs DIY tinkering for majority of their customers.
Show threadFlohEinsteinNov 9, 2024
@delric @marcus and the manufacturer 😁💰
Show threadHannahNov 9, 2024

@delric It is not only "DIY Tinkering" but also repairability. I have saved multiples computers in my life by just swapping out a faulty RAM stick. Regarding Apple and repairability, though, I guess that ship has sailed.

@FlohEinstein @marcus

Show threadnixCraft 🐧Nov 9, 2024
@delric @FlohEinstein @marcus Many Mac users do upgrade their Macs, but over the years, Apple has reduced that option for HDDs, SSDs, RAM, and other parts. eBay, MacSales, Amazon, and others still sell many parts for older Macs, and I'm sure this new Mac Mini will get upgraded parts too. It is just a matter of time.
Show threadThe Vargarnir systemNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft I guess if the cpu or ram craps out you could still possibly pull the drive for the data?
Show threadJustin DerrickNov 10, 2024

@garrwolfdog @nixCraft Nope, encrypted and the key is in the Secure Enclave in the CPU.

This is why we have backups - and on the Mac, Time Machine is an amazing, free, built-in solution that has existed for nearly two decades.

Show threadFrancis ChongNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Ram, CPU, GPU and “everything else” glued to the motherboard - what an interesting way to say integrated SoC
Show threadDakota ChambersNov 9, 2024

@nixCraft it's not that the CPU, GPU, and RAM are just components glued to the motherboard - they are literally integrated into a single piece of silicon. It's all on one chip.

So while everyone agrees it's annoying these things can't be upgraded or replaced independently, there are advantages to the current unified architecture.

Show threadKristof12Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Damn, this issue as always, glueing together, I prefer to avoid this
Show threadAcesabeNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft
The real issue is that by the time you would need to upgrade the RAM (who would want or expect to upgrade GPU/CPU on a non desktop Mac?), the model will long be outside of macOS security update support, thus rendering it a brick
Show threadGary Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft they’re not individual components “glued to the motherboard”, it’s an SoC, literally a single chip. It’s one reason the things are so damned fast
Show threadPhyxisNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft … except it's only the flash and support discretes part of an SSD, not the entirely implementation. Mentioned somewhere else on Fedi.
Show threadScott LairdNov 9, 2024

@nixCraft for memory at least this makes sense; by putting RAM in the SoC they get *much* more bandwidth than they could with SODIMMs. The M4 Max Mini has roughly the same bandwidth as 6 DDR5-5600 channels, or about 3x any non-workstation/non-server PC. There's no way they could fix the pins for 6 DDR5 channels into a cheap package, much less room for the DIMMs themselves without doubling the size of the computer.

SSD: that's just Apple being Apple.

Show threadIreneNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft
I guess that's a start. But the button placement …
Show threadJoão Tiago Rebelo (NAFO J-121)Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft you're holding it wrong 😉
Show threadnixCraft 🐧Nov 9, 2024
@jt_rebelo haha. typical Apple
Show threadtootbruteNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft oooh amazing design. bow down to Steve Jobs. 
Show threadAdam Trickett  Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Can't imagine inverting it is good for air flow and cooling...
Show threadStyxNov 9, 2024

@drajt @nixCraft I don't remember if the design is air push or pull, but it "could" be better

Sleek design is never the friend of "best" cooling

Show threadnixCraft 🐧Nov 9, 2024
@__Styx__ @drajt Defiantly push considering that rest of the mini is sealed.
Show threadhonzeNov 9, 2024
@drajt @nixCraft Apple with good airflow and cooling?
Show thread:-)avidNov 9, 2024
@drajt @nixCraft You can watch an Video of the airflow in the Product website. Te airflow itself should be work either way. I don’t think it makes much of a difference in general. The top of the enclosure becomes the bottom which may reduce passive cooling. But on the other hand. Warmth always tends to go up, so it can reach through the than on top openenings.
Show threadeons Luna (Eonity)Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Modern problems require modern solutions. 👀
Show threadCharlie StrossNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft So now the cat can reboot your Mac Mini! Niiiice!
Show threadWolfieNov 9, 2024
@cstross @nixCraft Like in the old days of the G4 Cube when it was passively cooled so cats loved to sit on the top because there were nice warm vents… but also a capacitive touch power button.
Show threadMelroy van den BergNov 9, 2024
@cstross @nixCraft I never lost any work due to my cat/s
Show threadMelroy van den BergNov 9, 2024

@cstross @nixCraft you want to know something funny? This is my current desktop PC setup at home. I'm not kidding.

#caturday #catproof

Show threadkim_harding ✅Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft 🤣
Show threadMatthew Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Why can't they put the power button to the side instead of the bottom? 💀
Show threadMx. Eddie RNov 9, 2024
@matty @nixCraft
That's how they did it in the old days.
This way is ✨ innovative ✨
Show threadObviousNov 9, 2024
Show threadque :verifried:Nov 9, 2024
@silvermoon82 @matty @nixCraft everyone appears to be so worked up over a button that is rarely used.
Show threadMatthew Nov 9, 2024
@que Rarely? I use the power button whether I'm using a PC or want it to shut down.


@silvermoon82 @nixCraft
Show threadJohn MeadowsNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Upside down??? Is that allowed? It seems vaguely subversive.... 🙂
Show threadDark Photon StudioNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Apple hasn't changed their design language in 18 years. Moving the I/O and power button around is all they have.
Show threadAndreas 'count' Kotes (he/him)Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft @cristianyxen https://makerworld.com/en/models/744386 seems to be a little bit smarter there 😆
Show threadRasterInterruptNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft Overpriced garbage. I'm so glad I have (almost) nothing to do with the Apple ecosystem or whatever they call their little kindergarden.
Show threadAhmedNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft I don't think it's something usual to use the power button in mac devices :D, but for this one I may agree if you ll treat it as a portable mini PC :D
Show threadFFNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft its a bit cooler like that 😙
Show threadUncannyKyleNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft I would almost put a card under it, so it wobbles a bit, and then put one of those plastic devalues that you put on the bottom on a chair leg on the table under the computer, so you can push down on top of the computer and turn it on that way.
Show threadAdam R. WoodNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft [insert reference to fan blowing empty toothpaste boxes off a conveyor here]
Show threadRich Puchalsky ⩜⃝Nov 9, 2024

@nixCraft

I have never had a Mac where I didn't need to hold down the power button sometimes to get it to reboot or turn back on after some kind of crash.

Otherwise, this design is like the recent Apple mouse where the power cord plugs in on the bottom so you can't use the mouse while it's charging. It's not a one-off it's a whole new tradition in Apple design.

Show threadFlorens VerscheldeNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft A kind of desire path, maybe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path
Desire path - Wikipedia

Show threadh0nza 🌄 🏊🚴Nov 9, 2024
now thats a great solution :)
Show threadIvre RocherNov 9, 2024
@nixCraft They could have done a better job using the Apple Logo as a power button
Show threadCris Nov 9, 2024
@nixCraft “also improved cooling”
Show threadgjmNov 9, 2024

@nixCraft I'm perplexed by all the Discourse about this. Surely if you have one of these things you're basically never going to be using the power button, so you _want_ it somewhere where there's no danger it'll get pushed by accident. Putting it on the bottom seems like a smart user-friendly choice to me.

Obviously a lot of people disagree, but I don't quite understand why.

(I'm not an Apple fanboy; I have never owned a Mac, iPhone or iPad, for instance. Apple have made some stupid design decisions. I just don't see how this is one of them.)