Craig PLike most humans, I don't actually want to be rich. I just want to never have to worry about money.
There's a difference.
This is too popular, so I've muted it. Sorry, I won't see any of your responses.
Isaac Freeman
patcanfield@Craigp Spend little. Invest a lot!
arclight@patcanfield Add "have rich parents" and you have every glowing Sunday magazine profile of the person that worked hard, gave up avocado toast and lattes, and bought a house when they were 28.
@arclight dad went to college after Navy on the GI BILL, out in 1951 married mom in 53. 1st child in '56,last of 7 in '65. Dad fixed everything, we never had a 'professional' in the house until dad was retired-with Parkinson's--Frugality is a virtue. None of my family(maybe mom) ever had avocado toast, OR a Latte! BUT, they Were Frugal--and Anyone /Everyone Could be-Self-discipline seems Passe' anymore.
@arclight Dad was an electrical engineer, ISU grad-1st in his family. His dad worked for the Railroad in Des Moines. Bootstraps--no-just tried.
Net02@Craigp I think I'm both.
π@Craigp i want to be rich in God!
Rob Landley@Craigp helping other people not have to worry about money is nice too.
just adrienne
usmu ππ³οΈβππ€
Dr. Quadragon β@Craigp I heard of a research into how much money a person needs to live comfortably and be happy.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1011492107#sec-1
Turns out, there's kind of a threshold: around $75000 a year in 2021 money. I'd round up a little for inflation and say 100k.
True, it's quite high by your standards or mine.
It still isn't what we mean by "rich".
ChefRaven
ΠΡΠΈΠ³ΠΎΡΠΈΠΉ ΠΠ»ΡΡΠ½ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠ²The problem is that for some people this threshold of "enough money" doesn't exist. It's probably a personality thing. The more money they have, the more they spend on an unnecessarily luxurious life, and they always want more money.
WearyBonnie@grishka
I kind of feel like 'enough money' doesn't exist for me in the sense that I always would want a bit more so that I could make more improvements in my garden, or buy a block somewhere that I could re-wild, or donate more money to good causes, but hopefully that's not as bad as chasing a sense of luxury which is actively harmful to human existence π€π»
@Craigp
I kind of feel like 'enough money' doesn't exist for me in the sense that I always would want a bit more so that I could make more improvements in my garden, or buy a block somewhere that I could re-wild, or donate more money to good causes, but hopefully that's not as bad as chasing a sense of luxury which is actively harmful to human existence π€π»
@Craigp
FoolishOwl@Craigp Most things I have, I don't need to own, I just want to be able to use them sometimes.
itscool900@foolishowl @Craigp same thing goes for people & pets
and yet some folks out there will really tell you that 2 people is enough to parent a childβ¦
Mike Fraser@Craigp You win the internet tonight.
Kelsiππ·π @Craigp the idea of being rich sounds stressful like oh now I have to find something to do with all this unnessecary wealth, I have to take extravagant vacations no please let me just sit home and thrift for clothes at goodwill
Big Head Tales@Craigp
OK, I agree with youβ¦
But, I would be OK, you know, just giving the whole filthy rich thing a whirl. Probably wonβt like it, I mean, yuck, but, just for an experience.
gkrnours@Craigp science say happiness and income have a linear correlation up to around 70k/y (at the time), which sound enough go comfortably cover all your need.
LR@Craigp yep. every common social problem has more than one solution.
Benjamin E.
wraptile@Craigp There's a clear diminishing returns on everything and going past a certain point it just becomes boring and effects can even reverse. Just look at how miserable many billionaires are.
Straddling that peak diminishing returns point is what makes life the most efficient and interesting and you don't need that much capital to get there!
jn (big endian energy)@Craigp quite a difference! it even seems that a lot of rich people *do* care about money, foolishly trying to be richer than their peers or whatever
filobus@Craigp you are the enemy of capitalism, you'll soon been absorbed and recycled by the system
Graham Downs@Craigp Yeah, but that needs enough money to not have to worry about money. The problem is that often, the more money you have, the more you tend to worry about money.
The key is, I think, I want to enjoy the lifestyle *I* want to live, without having to worry about money. The lifestyle you're comfortable with might not be good enough for me, and the one I'm comfortable with might not be good enough for the next person.
I absolutely agree that there's such a thing as "enough money", and such a thing as "too much money." Everyone needs to decide for themselves where those thresholds are. What "success" means to them. π€
Thomas Deniau@Craigp for me itβs the very definition of being rich. βRichβ means very different levels of wealth to different people, but in all cases, itβs when they donβt have to worry about money anymore
Shigella@Craigp define rich. If you compare me and my husband, with my neighbour living on the benefits in the council flat, I am filthy rich.
When I used to live in Poland, in small, crappy flat, my earnings where ~1,5k β¬ I was in top 5% of the society
Alberto Cottica@Craigp it is my impression that rich people constantly worry about money.
CyclesBecauseSummerIsComingπ@Craigp the FIRE community has done a lot of good work there in experimenting and thinking ( and quite some pppl got to this stage). For a lot of westerners, this can be done.
Von Xylofon@Craigp You've gotta be pretty damn rich to get there. And I know what you mean.
refraction 
@Craigp yeah, if we just didn't need money at all, ever that would do the trick. in fact if everyone just was freed from that pressure it would be an immense relief for us.
Gatekeeper..@Craigp
No, not really.
No, not really.
Gemma βοΈπ°πΊπΈ π΅π π@Craigp The difficulty that most people have with wrapping their brains around this idea is that people in our society are trained to think of money in terms of income, rather than in terms of expenses. If your expenses are low, you don't need a lot of income to be secure.
So, the question is, why is the cost of living so high?
It's not a rhetorical question. It has a definite, obvious, and long-known answer to economists. The answer is "rent", and there is a solution.
@Craigp Henry George gave us The Remedy all the way back in 1879. We must make land common property.
John Caveney woke is meπ οΈ@Craigp Couldnβt agree more!
CyWe really need to get rid of money...
BardMoss the Bodhi Linux Guy@Craigp
My mother died 3 years ago. The estate that she left to me was a reasonable amount of money, to be paid out over 5 years. This is the first time in my life I've had enough money to actually live on, with my disabled wife. And it goes away in less than 2 years. Think I'm scared? Damn straight.
My mother died 3 years ago. The estate that she left to me was a reasonable amount of money, to be paid out over 5 years. This is the first time in my life I've had enough money to actually live on, with my disabled wife. And it goes away in less than 2 years. Think I'm scared? Damn straight.
Digital@Craigp I'm absolutely there with you on that one. I'd like to just live what I consider a kind of normal life where money isn't some huge cause of stress all the time. Maybe see a few other countries I've always wanted to see before I die.
distincte&clare@Craigp
There are those who have to feel the daily threats: loosing home, unable to pay for medical care, being thrown out of society, stripped off dignity. Then there are those who never ever have to fear anything of that kind. They do have to die, too, but for now, and they live longer, all the common threats of the capitalist society don't mean a shit to them. Because they've enough money.
That privilege, btw never the result of "hard work", is just utterly disgusting.
There are those who have to feel the daily threats: loosing home, unable to pay for medical care, being thrown out of society, stripped off dignity. Then there are those who never ever have to fear anything of that kind. They do have to die, too, but for now, and they live longer, all the common threats of the capitalist society don't mean a shit to them. Because they've enough money.
That privilege, btw never the result of "hard work", is just utterly disgusting.
@Craigp yes, to never worry about money, you'd have to be filthy rich, not just rich! π
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΞΞπ²@Craigp 100% same here
minusavenue@Craigp The difference between being rich and being wealthy:
Q: How much money do you have to have to be wealthy?
A: I don't know.
That's the answer, literally. Wealthy people might not be "rich", but they have enough to cover all of their needs to the point they usually don't know exactly how much money they have.
Poor people *always* know exactly how much is left in their bank accounts.
FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER πΊπ¦π¨πΏ@Craigp i care about my neighbor getting poor
πΈ lily π³οΈββ§οΈ 
ΞΈΞ β & β@Craigp exactly. if i got absurdly rich, i'd just donate to mutual aid and stuff
Giles Goat@Craigp I think 'most humans' ( or just 'some' ? ) are happy to reach a 'comfortable level N' where possibly the would not have to worry that they are going to loose it or that they need to work lot MORE to just REMAIN on level N. The idea that 'everyone wants more and more' it's not that real, it's more "pushed" into the brains of some by the systems. [edit] I think China realised the BEST way to conquer stuff is NOT by war but by INVESTING on it and then OWNING it.
John Keller
Richard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP π¨π¦πΉπ΄ββοΈπ· πΊοΈ@Craigp
And if we build a proper social safety net people don't have to build their own hoarding wealth just in case.
And if we build a proper social safety net people don't have to build their own hoarding wealth just in case.