Welcome to today's thread - #CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference - Berlin - Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa - Frankfurt (Oder) - Erkner - Berlin

Crossing these borders:
Frankfurt (Oder) 🇩🇪 - Slubice 🇵🇱 (but have crossed this before)

These borders on the borders map:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-all-the-borders_935041#14/52.3303/14.5671

Today's routes on the routes map:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#7/52.982/16.166

#CrossBorderRail All The Borders

All of Europe's rail borders - categorised by type, and whether I (Jon Worth) have been to the location. KEY Black - #000000: visited in 2022 during #CrossBorderRail Project Dark grey - #222222: visited in since the 2022 project Mid grey - #555555: tramways and narrow gauge lines, visited Light grey - #999999: not yet visited Very light grey - #BBBBBB: used for tramways and narrow gauge lines ICONS Track with cross - track is missing or out of use Train with cross, and track - track is useable but no passenger trains Train and track - passenger trains run Map developed as part of my #CrossBorderRail project http://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/

uMap

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 1 of 8
S 42
04:46 Berlin Hermannstrasse - Berlin Ostkreuz 04:55
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: Stadler-Siemens S-Bahn 483/484, 2x 4 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (step free, gap free at Hermannstrasse)
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (lots of multi use spaces)
🧽: 🙂

S 42
04:56 Berlin Hermannstrasse - Berlin Ostkreuz 05:05

Distance: 5.3km
Average speed: 35km/h

4 stops:
Berlin-Neukölln
Berlin Sonnenallee
Berlin Treptower Park
Berlin Ostkreuz (S)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#14/52.4853/13.4505

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 2 of 8
S 3
05:02 Berlin Ostkreuz - Erkner 05:31
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: Adtranz and DWA (later Bombardier) 481 EMU, 4x 2 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (not quite as good as the newer 484, but still v good)
🧽: 🙂

S 3
05:12 Berlin Ostkreuz - Erkner 05:41

Distance: 21.6km
Average speed: 45km/h

10 stops:
Berlin-Rummelsburg
Berlin Betriebsbf Rummelsburg
Berlin-Karlshorst (S)
Berlin-Wuhlheide
Berlin-Köpenick
Berlin-Hirschgarten
Berlin-Friedrichshagen
Berlin-Rahnsdorf
Berlin-Wilhelmshagen
Erkner (S)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#12/52.4656/13.6109

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

And why the hell am I going to Warszawa this way?

Because there are engineering works on the main line between Berlin and Erkner, and the EuroCity only starts in Frankfurt (Oder)

Were the Ostbahn Kostrzyn - Berlin electrified trains could divert over that #CrossBorderRail route. But that hasn’t happened and won’t happen soon…

And I’m in Warszawa to speak at #Eurotrans2024 https://eurotrans2024.sgh.waw.pl/en/agenda Luckily my panel is early afternoon, allowing me to make a day trip to Warszawa

It’s not the most interesting day in terms of the borders - I know Frankfurt (Oder) 🇩🇪 - Slubice 🇵🇱 all too well. But it’ll be interesting to see how the Faeser-trashes-Schengen controls work later on. Will they control everyone, or only minorities?

Meanwhile passing Rahnsdorf (towards Erkner)

Not to be confused with Rangsdorf (south of Schönefeld Airport)

Just as Lichterfelde is not to be confused with Lichtenrade or Lichtenberg. And Mariendorf and Marienfelde.

After all these years in Berlin I still mix them up

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 3 of 8
RE 1 (73754)
05:50 Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) 06:31
Ostdeutsche Eisenbahn GmbH

Train type: Siemens Desiro HC EMU, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (I like the single-double deck mix)
🧽: 😐 (graffiti on some windows)

RE 1 (73754)
05:50 Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) 06:31

Distance: 56.7km
Average speed: 83km/h

8 stops:
Fangschleuse
Fürstenwalde(Spree)
Berkenbrück
Briesen(Mark)
Jacobsdorf(Mark)
Pillgram
Frankfurt(Oder)-Rosengarten
Frankfurt(Oder)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#11/52.3752/14.0834

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
I don’t know how the train manager is so cheery before 6am on this train to Frankfurt (Oder), but good morning! 😀 Apologies if I couldn’t quite match the energy with my Guten Morgen!

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 4 of 8
EC 41
06:49 Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa Centralna 10:57
DB Fernverkehr AG, PKP Intercity

Train type: Siemens Vectron locomotive, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ⛔️ (used to, but now doesn’t 😡)
🦽: ✅ (needs lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ✅
🧳: 😐 (very limited space in compartment carriages, high steps)
🧽: 🙂 (spotless)

EC 41
06:49 Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa Centralna 10:57

Distance: 477.9km
Average speed: 116km/h

8 stops:
Rzepin
Świebodzin
Zbąszynek
Poznań Gl.
Konin
Kutno
Warszawa Zachodnia
Warszawa Centralna

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#8/52.255/17.775

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

Szczaniec

No we weren’t meant to stop here…

Damn, how has PKP IC messed this up?

EC 41 is now *only* compartment carriages - not ideal in itself! - and that means no bike transport

PKP IC has these decent 2nd class open carriages with bike spaces. Why not use those here still? They used to run them

Thanks @mattfullerton for alerting me to the problem, that I can confirm

Also ALL EuroCity trains Berlin-Warszawa now are timetabled to run without bike spaces. WHY?

Trains without bike spaces I’ve encountered. But ones that used to have them and now don’t - that’s absurd!

Also all compartment carriages isn’t good either - end up with the wrong people in your compartment and that can be grim.

All you need for Berlin-Warszawa is 160km/h DE and PL approved carriages. PKP IC has loads of these with bike spaces.

There can’t be an approval problem to run the ones with bike spaces to Germany as they used to run (unless some permission were revoked, but is that really the case here?)

So on balance of probability this is just a crap management decision - to deploy the newest compartment carriages on Berlin-Warszawa, but then they forgot about cyclists.

At least there’s still a @diningcar though!
Retro EP09 at Poznań
When the sign in the train says you’re going to Warszawa Gdanska, but DB and Portal Pasazera still think the train will serve Centralna (final stop Wschodnia)

Kutno

Typical Polish modern station. Not super charming, but functional and accessible

So it went to Centralna. Not Gdańska. With a little delay. So I’m now in sunny Warszawa

Oh. And I get to #Eurotrans2024 and who’s here: Bogusław Liberadzki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus%C5%82aw_Liberadzki?wprov=sfti1#

The MEP who - as Rapporteur for the Rail Passenger Rights Regulation in 2021 - bears more political responsibility for the mess we’re in with ticketing and rights than more than anyone

Bogusław Liberadzki - Wikipedia

We’ve got a dude called Sönke Reise presenting at #Eurotrans2024

Perfect name 🙂

Sadly Sönke Reise’s presentation went downhill from his name onwards. #Eurotrans2024
Ahhh finally a good speaker. Daniel Hörcher from Imperial. Sharp guy #Eurotrans2024 https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/d.horcher
Now they’re trying to talk about #RailBaltica. It’s horrid. At least I know what I don’t know about Rail Baltica, which is better than this. #Eurotrans2024

Here’s my post about #RailBaltica after travelling a big part of the future route earlier this year #Eurotrans2024

https://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/rail-baltica-better-informed-but-none-the-wiser/

Being at this #Eurotrans2024 conference is weird. It’s another one of these situations where I don’t know if I’m enlightened or if I’m stupid.

I can cut through the bullshit in these speeches like a knife through butter. But the people here have roles, responsibility, income *massively* higher than I do.

Ah. Megaprojects often don’t get the traffic they expected when they started building. We know that. “We need a better assessment control framework from the EU”. Laughing darkly here. What EU politician gives a 💩 about that? #Eurotrans2024
Top Zoom tip: if your face is too bright / low contrast, make your fake background likewise 🙂 #Eurotrans2024
So I didn’t make a fool of myself at Eurotrans. And people understood my points - as I’ve got useful examples to make what I’m talking about real and relateable. Quick 10 mins on a bench in the sun and now back towards Berlin… #Eurotrans2024
Passed the infrastructure ministry on the way back to Centralna. Busy road and no cycle path there 😡

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 5 of 8
EC 40
17:01 Warszawa Centralna - Frankfurt (Oder) 21:09
DB Fernverkehr AG, PKP Intercity

Train type: Siemens Taurus locomotive, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ⛔️
🦽: ✅
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ✅ (and it’s good)
🧳: ☹️ (busier than this morning, and it’s inadequate)
🧽: 🙂

EC 40
17:01 Warszawa Centralna - Frankfurt (Oder) 21:09

Distance: 477.8km
Average speed: 116km/h

8 stops:
Warszawa Zachodnia
Kutno
Konin
Poznań Gl.
Zbąszynek
Świebodzin
Rzepin
Frankfurt(Oder)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#8/52.255/17.775

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
That this train - that can do vMax 160km/h with 8 stops averages 116km/h is quite something. Ok, the terrain is flat, but there’s not much slack in this timetable.
Ha. Passenger next to me here has “Zugbindung ist aufgehoben” on her DB Ticket. So she can take any train. Polish train manager doesn’t know what this means 🙂 We’re not sure if the Deepl translation “Wiązanie pociągu zostało anulowane” is right!

So then. Heading back to Germany first time since Faeser gave up on #Schengen. My train doesn’t run all the way to Berlin but terminates at Frankfurt (Oder). What will happen there?

(Or if you think something else will happen, reply to say what!)

Police will just observe everyone alighting
8.2%
Police will demand ID from minorities only
76.7%
Police will demand ID from all
3.4%
There’ll be no police
11.6%
Poll ended at .
Golden hour, PKP version

I’m really melancholy here tonight.

Warszawa - Berlin on EC 40, with the sun fading over the fields of Poland is one of my very favourite trains. A genuine journey thtough the country. And Poland was always there, just an hour from Berlin, both familiar and unknown.

But from next month it’ll no longer be an hour away, but 11 hours away. I’ll miss it being so accessible.

And I know this is silly. I speak English, French and German, and odds and ends of Swedish and Italian, nothing Slavic. I’d not survive professionally in Poland. I can’t see how I could live there.

But to visit it I’m so fascinated always. I suppose I know it well enough to know how to navigate it, but it’s still different enough to surprise me still. And there are aspects of it that repulse me too - the strong Catholicism, the car dependency, the coal burning…

@jon
My feelings exactly.
@jon Hope this cheers you up a bit.
@openclimatedata Yes! The trend is decent indeed! Plenty of new solar parks along the line here too.

@openclimatedata @jon

Those curves will cross very soon, it seems!

@jon coal burning has dramatically changed (at least in some places). Krakow today is nothing compared to Krakow 20y ago where being outside with asthma in winter was close to impossible!
@jon avoid Bavaria then as well

Hey Donald Tusk!

You were swift to criticise Germany’s blatant disregard of #Schengen

So why are Polish armed police prowling around the EuroCity train between Świebodzin and Rzepin? 🤔

Didn’t check anyone in my compartment though

So the Polish police took a black guy off the train in Rzepin in handcuffs.

Whether there were any white passengers doing anything untoward we can’t know - as they didn’t get checked.

Next and final stop: Frankfurt (Oder). Germany.

My train is 12 mins late, meaning I have 3 minutes to change. Are the Faeser controls going to mean I miss the connection? 🤔

Aaaaand the majority of you were right of course

3 police. Bottom of the steps from the platform. The only person they had stopped - when I’d passed - was an East Asian looking guy

I shouted “Ihr kontrolliert nur Minderheiten” at them as I passed, but didn’t stop for an argument

https://gruene.social/@jon/113147994540223904

Jon Worth (@[email protected])

So then. Heading back to Germany first time since Faeser gave up on #Schengen. My train doesn’t run all the way to Berlin but terminates at Frankfurt (Oder). What will happen there? (Or if you think something else will happen, reply to say what!) [ ] Police will just observe everyone alighting [ ] Police will demand ID from minorities only [ ] Police will demand ID from all [ ] There’ll be no police

gruene.social
The Nancy Faeser policy

Now I’m feeling shit. I should have stopped and argued with the police. Demand they check me too. Ask why they’d singled out someone who’s obviously an ethnic minority, not anyone else.

But instead I ran and got my connecting train.

I’ve got to do more to practice what I preach on this issue. Even if it’s personally inconvenient.

Yes I’m tired. It’s been a long day. But that’s nothing compared to systematic racism.

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 6 of 8
RE 1 (73793)
21:24 Frankfurt (Oder) - Erkner 22:09
Ostdeutsche Eisenbahn GmbH

Train type: Siemens Desiro HC EMU, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (sign tells you which door is step free)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂
🧽: 🙂

RE 1 (73793)
21:24 Frankfurt (Oder) - Erkner 22:09

Distance: 56.7km
Average speed: 76km/h

9 stops:
Frankfurt(Oder)-Rosengarten
Pillgram
Jacobsdorf(Mark)
Briesen(Mark)
Berkenbrück
Fürstenwalde(Spree)
Hangelsberg
Fangschleuse
Erkner

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#11/52.3752/14.0834

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 7 of 8
S 3
22:24 Erkner - Berlin Ostkreuz 22:53
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: AEG, Siemens, WU 480 EMU, 4x 2 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ❓(these aren’t step free, I assume there’s a ramp somewhere?)
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 😐 (multi use areas are small)
🧽: 🙂

S 3
22:24 Erkner - Berlin Ostkreuz 22:53

Distance: 21.7km
Average speed: 45km/h

10 stops:
Berlin-Wilhelmshagen
Berlin-Rahnsdorf
Berlin-Friedrichshagen
Berlin-Hirschgarten
Berlin-Köpenick
Berlin-Wuhlheide
Berlin-Karlshorst (S)
Berlin Betriebsbf Rummelsburg
Berlin-Rummelsburg
Berlin Ostkreuz (S)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#12/52.4656/13.6109

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 8 of 8
S 41
23:00 Berlin Ostkreuz - Berlin Hermannstrasse 23:09
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: Stadler-Siemens S-Bahn 483/484, 8 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂
🧽: 🙂

(I forgot a photo)

S 41
23:00 Berlin Ostkreuz - Berlin Hermannstrasse 23:09

Distance: 5.3km
Average speed: 35km/h

4 stops:
Berlin Treptower Park
Berlin Sonnenallee
Berlin-Neukölln
Berlin Hermannstraße

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#14/52.4853/13.4505

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap

And I’m home.

You can do a day trip Berlin - Warszawa - Berlin. But I’d not recommend it. It’s all too rushed!

#CrossBorderRail resumes Thursday!

/ends

@jon Jon, I don’t know how you have the stamina for these trips. 4 am to 11 pm plus taking part in a panel! I’m both impressed with and grateful for your work on #CrossBorderRail issues
@jon yes they do have ramps for 🦽. Typically at the station close to where the leading waggon stops so the driver can get it quickly. If they like doing that is another story entirely.
@mrtoto and at Erkner at the front of an 8 carriage train. When the entrance is at the back. Good luck!
@jon yes. Some platforms are worse than others. Significantly. Most inside the ring are ok though and luckily most modern trains don’t need a ramp.
@mrtoto Right. This is the only series that needs it now. And the days of these ones are numbered. Thankfully!
@jon this is a BR480 train. they are equipped with an automatic gap bridging at the multi purpose compartment doors (usually at the end of a car). For some wheelchair users they are somewhat usable without external help. (Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVG-Baureihe_480)
BVG-Baureihe 480 – Wikipedia

@jon Mistakes happen. Sadly this won't be the last time. Next time you'll be prepared and do better.
@taschenorakel I was prepared. And I ducked. Damn. Damn.

@jon Mais pas assez.

You were aware of the problem.
You wanted to help.
You were ready to protest.

Sadly that's more support already than you can expect from most people theses days.

What you weren't prepared for yet: Your own caution/fear when it comes to confronting authorities, exposing yourself to the public. Now you know this feeling and can deal with it better next time.

@jon

It's not your fault.

And it's always a burden to see these things in advance. Cassandra could tell many stories about this...

@jon No controls that I noticed on my trip from Luxembourg - Frankfurt (Main) last week. Is it a route they are less worried about?
@jon it’s hard. And you didn’t do nothing. They heard you and it likely made them feel at least the slightest but of guilt if they’re capable. And other passengers heard too and might feel more empowered to speak up next time because of that.
@jon you wouldn't have fixed systemic racism today. We're all confronted with more problems than we can solve, we have to pick and choose or end up burning out and having no energy to tackle any of them.

@jon
I.e. Kenia, Ghana et al. are generating top qualified IT-People, Scientists and a lot more.

While we would need them urgently, we should be honest and tell them before coming:

You will not only be harrassed by Nazis on our streets every day but you also will be "randomly" checked by police while you are on your way to the expensive restaurants in the inner city. Every time.

@jon You might have hurt their feelings. We all know it’s a lot of Einzelfälle but there’s no struktureller Rassismus in German police. Never. Not once. It can’t be because it’s illegal.
@gatogatogato Yeah. I’ve seen a hell of a lot of Einzelfälle!
@jon we're getting back to Berlin from Italy right now. Took RJ 84, it departed Bologna with +76 for some reason. From Bologna to Brenner it gained some and lost some, arriving to Brenner with the same +76.
Halfway between Brenner and Innsbruck, DB started displaying that it's going to be cancelled after Rosenheim, while train displays (and ÖBB) still displayed projected arrival to Munchen with like +60.
Asked train manager what's going on, but he didn't know and thought we're going to reach Munchen, said that he will have more information by Jenbach or Wörgl.
Asked him again in Jenbach, and maybe I misunderstood him but I think that he said that German border controls won't let the train in beyond Rosenheim, because it's so delayed and there is RJ 82 after it.
So eventually we arrived to Rosenheim with +122, train unloaded all passengers there, and we all had to walk to another platform to board RJ 82 with +20 (breaking all connections passengers on RJ 84 might have had of course).
A bunch of police loaded at Innsbruck IIRC, they were a menacing presence on the train as the delay increased from +76 to +122. I'm not sure if they were Austrian or German though; I saw them doing some document checks but didn't see who they were checking, and not sure what happened later.
@IngaLovinde I’m pretty sure DB wouldn’t use border controls as a reason to reverse it, would it?
@jon sounded weird to me too, maybe I misunderstood the train manager. But i cannot think of any other reason either?
Of course SBB regularly doesn't let late trains in beyond Basel Bad Bf, but DB is no SBB, what harm would there be to DB in letting this train to proceed a bit longer...
(Oh and I forgot to say, ultimately there were no border controls at Rosenheim. I once been in a similar situation in Frankfurt (Oder) in March 2022 (similar as in they cancelled the train beyond Frankfurt, only announced this at Rzepin, and directed everybody to take RE instead), and cops were checking all passengers right at the doors of the train, but this was when most passengers were refugees from Ukraine...)
@jon Cartoons are supposed to be make-believe.
@jon well, maybe yes, but the police is now smiling more often than under the previous government /s
@jon 11 hour?? What are we doing ...
@julienw Ravières to Poland is min 11 hours by train.
@jon aaah from your current home
@jon never been to Poland but I'd like to
@julienw great place to travel. Super cities. Nice train routes. Can recommend!
@julienw
Warsawa is a great city with a complicated history which adds to its allure

@jon

I'm planning to be in Berlin tomorrow and Wednesday, returning to Munich Thursday. I had worked out a nice itinerary via Warsaw and a sleeper train, but alas, there's bustitution between Berlin and Frankfurt a.d. Oder Thursday, so I elected to come straight back by the direct train.

@jon (she didn’t give up, IMHO. She actively sabotaged it, giving far-right parties/politicians all over the EU an excuse to go even further)
@jon I voted the second option but additionally somewhere in town a teenager dies of ennui without ever knowing what ennui is.

@jon definitely not right, "wiązanie" here would be something like a chemical bond, or an action of tying things together

we doesn't really have a word for this kind of concept, but i guess you could say "przywiązanie biletu do pociągu"(??); sounds very clunky, but would get the point across in Polish

@jon ( the rest, "zostało anulowane", sounds correct )