Jon WorthSep 16, 2024

Welcome to today's thread - #CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference - Berlin - Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa - Frankfurt (Oder) - Erkner - Berlin

Crossing these borders:
Frankfurt (Oder) 🇩🇪 - Slubice 🇵🇱 (but have crossed this before)

These borders on the borders map:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-all-the-borders_935041#14/52.3303/14.5671

Today's routes on the routes map:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#7/52.982/16.166

#CrossBorderRail All The Borders

All of Europe's rail borders - categorised by type, and whether I (Jon Worth) have been to the location. KEY Black - #000000: visited in 2022 during #CrossBorderRail Project Dark grey - #222222: visited in since the 2022 project Mid grey - #555555: tramways and narrow gauge lines, visited Light grey - #999999: not yet visited Very light grey - #BBBBBB: used for tramways and narrow gauge lines ICONS Track with cross - track is missing or out of use Train with cross, and track - track is useable but no passenger trains Train and track - passenger trains run Map developed as part of my #CrossBorderRail project http://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/

uMap
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 1 of 8
S 42
04:46 Berlin Hermannstrasse - Berlin Ostkreuz 04:55
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: Stadler-Siemens S-Bahn 483/484, 2x 4 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅ (step free, gap free at Hermannstrasse)
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (lots of multi use spaces)
🧽: 🙂

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

S 42
04:56 Berlin Hermannstrasse - Berlin Ostkreuz 05:05

Distance: 5.3km
Average speed: 35km/h

4 stops:
Berlin-Neukölln
Berlin Sonnenallee
Berlin Treptower Park
Berlin Ostkreuz (S)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#14/52.4853/13.4505

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 2 of 8
S 3
05:02 Berlin Ostkreuz - Erkner 05:31
DB S-Bahn Berlin

Train type: Adtranz and DWA (later Bombardier) 481 EMU, 4x 2 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅
🛜: ⛔️
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (not quite as good as the newer 484, but still v good)
🧽: 🙂

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

S 3
05:12 Berlin Ostkreuz - Erkner 05:41

Distance: 21.6km
Average speed: 45km/h

10 stops:
Berlin-Rummelsburg
Berlin Betriebsbf Rummelsburg
Berlin-Karlshorst (S)
Berlin-Wuhlheide
Berlin-Köpenick
Berlin-Hirschgarten
Berlin-Friedrichshagen
Berlin-Rahnsdorf
Berlin-Wilhelmshagen
Erkner (S)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#12/52.4656/13.6109

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

And why the hell am I going to Warszawa this way?

Because there are engineering works on the main line between Berlin and Erkner, and the EuroCity only starts in Frankfurt (Oder)

Were the Ostbahn Kostrzyn - Berlin electrified trains could divert over that #CrossBorderRail route. But that hasn’t happened and won’t happen soon…

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

And I’m in Warszawa to speak at #Eurotrans2024 https://eurotrans2024.sgh.waw.pl/en/agenda Luckily my panel is early afternoon, allowing me to make a day trip to Warszawa

It’s not the most interesting day in terms of the borders - I know Frankfurt (Oder) 🇩🇪 - Slubice 🇵🇱 all too well. But it’ll be interesting to see how the Faeser-trashes-Schengen controls work later on. Will they control everyone, or only minorities?

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Meanwhile passing Rahnsdorf (towards Erkner)

Not to be confused with Rangsdorf (south of Schönefeld Airport)

Just as Lichterfelde is not to be confused with Lichtenrade or Lichtenberg. And Mariendorf and Marienfelde.

After all these years in Berlin I still mix them up

Show threadJon Worth

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 3 of 8
RE 1 (73754)
05:50 Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) 06:31
Ostdeutsche Eisenbahn GmbH

Train type: Siemens Desiro HC EMU, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ✅
🦽: ✅
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ⛔️
🧳: 🙂 (I like the single-double deck mix)
🧽: 😐 (graffiti on some windows)

Sep 16, 2024 at 3:36amWeb
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

RE 1 (73754)
05:50 Erkner - Frankfurt (Oder) 06:31

Distance: 56.7km
Average speed: 83km/h

8 stops:
Fangschleuse
Fürstenwalde(Spree)
Berkenbrück
Briesen(Mark)
Jacobsdorf(Mark)
Pillgram
Frankfurt(Oder)-Rosengarten
Frankfurt(Oder)

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#11/52.3752/14.0834

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
I don’t know how the train manager is so cheery before 6am on this train to Frankfurt (Oder), but good morning! 😀 Apologies if I couldn’t quite match the energy with my Guten Morgen!
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

#CrossBorderRail 2024 Extra Days – Warszawa Conference Train 4 of 8
EC 41
06:49 Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa Centralna 10:57
DB Fernverkehr AG, PKP Intercity

Train type: Siemens Vectron locomotive, 6 carriages
⚡️
🚲: ⛔️ (used to, but now doesn’t 😡)
🦽: ✅ (needs lift or ramp on platform)
🛜: ✅
🍽️: ✅
🧳: 😐 (very limited space in compartment carriages, high steps)
🧽: 🙂 (spotless)

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

EC 41
06:49 Frankfurt (Oder) - Warszawa Centralna 10:57

Distance: 477.9km
Average speed: 116km/h

8 stops:
Rzepin
Świebodzin
Zbąszynek
Poznań Gl.
Konin
Kutno
Warszawa Zachodnia
Warszawa Centralna

This train, mapped: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/crossborderrail-extra-days-2024_1030682#8/52.255/17.775

#CrossBorderRail Extra Days 2024

uMap
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Szczaniec

No we weren’t meant to stop here…

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Damn, how has PKP IC messed this up?

EC 41 is now *only* compartment carriages - not ideal in itself! - and that means no bike transport

PKP IC has these decent 2nd class open carriages with bike spaces. Why not use those here still? They used to run them

Thanks @mattfullerton for alerting me to the problem, that I can confirm

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Also ALL EuroCity trains Berlin-Warszawa now are timetabled to run without bike spaces. WHY?

Trains without bike spaces I’ve encountered. But ones that used to have them and now don’t - that’s absurd!

Also all compartment carriages isn’t good either - end up with the wrong people in your compartment and that can be grim.

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

All you need for Berlin-Warszawa is 160km/h DE and PL approved carriages. PKP IC has loads of these with bike spaces.

There can’t be an approval problem to run the ones with bike spaces to Germany as they used to run (unless some permission were revoked, but is that really the case here?)

So on balance of probability this is just a crap management decision - to deploy the newest compartment carriages on Berlin-Warszawa, but then they forgot about cyclists.

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
At least there’s still a @diningcar though!
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
Retro EP09 at Poznań
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
When the sign in the train says you’re going to Warszawa Gdanska, but DB and Portal Pasazera still think the train will serve Centralna (final stop Wschodnia)
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Kutno

Typical Polish modern station. Not super charming, but functional and accessible

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
So it went to Centralna. Not Gdańska. With a little delay. So I’m now in sunny Warszawa
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Oh. And I get to #Eurotrans2024 and who’s here: Bogusław Liberadzki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus%C5%82aw_Liberadzki?wprov=sfti1#

The MEP who - as Rapporteur for the Rail Passenger Rights Regulation in 2021 - bears more political responsibility for the mess we’re in with ticketing and rights than more than anyone

Bogusław Liberadzki - Wikipedia

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

We’ve got a dude called Sönke Reise presenting at #Eurotrans2024

Perfect name 🙂

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
Sadly Sönke Reise’s presentation went downhill from his name onwards. #Eurotrans2024
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
Ahhh finally a good speaker. Daniel Hörcher from Imperial. Sharp guy #Eurotrans2024 https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/d.horcher
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
Now they’re trying to talk about #RailBaltica. It’s horrid. At least I know what I don’t know about Rail Baltica, which is better than this. #Eurotrans2024
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Here’s my post about #RailBaltica after travelling a big part of the future route earlier this year #Eurotrans2024

https://crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu/rail-baltica-better-informed-but-none-the-wiser/

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024

Being at this #Eurotrans2024 conference is weird. It’s another one of these situations where I don’t know if I’m enlightened or if I’m stupid.

I can cut through the bullshit in these speeches like a knife through butter. But the people here have roles, responsibility, income *massively* higher than I do.

Show threadIgnas KielaSep 16, 2024
@jon oh, now I'm interested to know what mosconceptions they have
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@ignaloidas the central question is this: WHAT is #RailBaltica for? WHO is it for? Everything flows from that. But lots of people never asked themselves that!
Show threadMarthaSep 16, 2024
@jon
What did they actually say and who said it?
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@Island_Martha it was some bla bla about the geopolitical significance of it. Which is an argument you can make. But that doesn’t get you far to determine WHAT to build and to what specifications.
Show threadMarthaSep 16, 2024
@jon
Are you planning to speak to him or about him?
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@Island_Martha oh he’s too wrong to be bothering talking to. But the failure of the 2021 reform - I’ll now make sure that gets a mention.
Show threadMarthaSep 16, 2024
@jon
Clever and appropriate.
Show threadAndrej ShaduraSep 16, 2024
@jon, hello from rainy flooded Bratislava! 👋
Show threadMarthaSep 16, 2024
@jon
I love Warsawa. It feels like a grittier New York.
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@Island_Martha I really like it too. I always enjoy time here, even if today it’s too short (home tonight).
Show threadJTWSep 16, 2024
@jon the world's least welcoming science museum!
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@jtwcornell91 I’ve never been in. Maybe I should not bother then!
Show threadJTWSep 16, 2024
@jon IIRC I was too intimidated to get past the lobby.
Show threadMatthew FullertonSep 16, 2024
@jon which one is correct!?
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@mattfullerton i think the sign in the train is wrong. We’ll see shortly!
Show threadStefan CzerniawskiSep 16, 2024

@jon @mattfullerton It may not be (not sure if the blue sky bridge works both ways):

https://bsky.app/profile/pubstr.at/post/3l4azztb3up2n

Stefan Czerniawski (@pubstr.at)

The train might be right - the diversion notice comes up against your train on https://koleo.pl/rozklad-pkp/frankfurt-oder/warszawa-centralna/16-09-2024_09:00/all/all

Bluesky Social
Show thread🌺 Cat PöñíçkøvāSep 16, 2024
@jon i have complained to CD about the same issue and they were like, well, it's international, so we can't have it right, just double check with the train staff if you like, uh, care where are you going
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@pony well it is a Polish train, I am in Poland, and the end stop is in Poland.
Show threadMarthaSep 16, 2024
@jon
I don't even remember a Warsawa Gdanska station there.
Show threadDining CarSep 16, 2024
@jon That's great! Have a joyful time! 🤗
Show threadGuillaume EndignouxSep 16, 2024

@jon @diningcar And it's not just a bike problem with these compartment carriages:
- Best way to put a large luggage? the narrow corridor.
- Best way to put a stroller? the entrance doors.

I'd wager the restaurant is probably the best place to put large luggage in these compartment-only trains depending on configuration (I've seen several models of the Wars car too).

Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@gendx I didn't photograph it, but the @diningcar in my train did not have those spaces between seats like that.
Show threadGuillaume EndignouxSep 16, 2024
@jon @diningcar Digging from my archive, did it look like this?
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@gendx @diningcar yes
Show threadInga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸Sep 16, 2024
@gendx @jon @diningcar why do they even make compartment carriages these days? I thought they were a relic of the past
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@IngaLovinde @gendx @diningcar Poland still seems to really like them. Not sure why. Not least as they're lower capacity than open carriages.
Show threadShineSep 16, 2024
@jon @IngaLovinde @gendx @diningcar they are still nice in some specific use cases I think. I often use women-only compartments in CD trains, compartments for parents with children seem to be also nice, as they allow them to be a bit noisier when playing without bothering other people.
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@shine @IngaLovinde @gendx @diningcar Perhaps. But only compartments as this is here, no thanks!
Show threadShineSep 16, 2024
@jon @IngaLovinde @gendx @diningcar For sure. Few compartments in each train for purposes like this are likely a good idea, but this is ridiculous.
Show thread波鉄 (Hatetsu)Sep 16, 2024

@jon @shine @IngaLovinde @gendx @diningcar
As an introverted Polish compartment fiend, well, choice is good and people have good reasons for wanting/needing either. I like (the modern six-seat) compartments because they offer connection, the rare opportunity to talk to strangers (sometimes) and/or just more quiet with less anxiety about sharing a space with lots of people (usually otherwise). (Admittedly, I am male, travel during the day and rarely take big bags with me) I'd say the ideal train is between 1/3 and 2/3 compartments. And maybe it's something like that for more people (though I wouldn't quite call the compartment a Polish cultural institution or anything like that) - I mean, surely they wouldn't be ordering significant amounts of brand-new ones if they didn't have data suggesting people (or certain well-placed persons) want them, right?

(Hello, been following your profile accountless for a while now, I hope I won't be a nuisance)

Show threadKarlESep 17, 2024
@jon just a thought: some bike rack cars I have encountered were control cars (end cars for steering). If that is the case here, it could be that the steering console does not meet signalling requirements along the route, or is considered unsuitable for some other reason?
I am puzzled why they would go to compartment carriages. Simply for capacity reasons, open plan carriages are more efficient (2+2 seats in 2nd class instead of 3, assuming the usual arrangement).
Show threadKarlESep 17, 2024
@jon come to think of it, maybe that's the reason: bike cars lose seats, if they wanted a certain number of seats and compartments provide fewer, perhaps they tried to compensate by removing bike/multipurpose areas?
Show threadJon WorthSep 17, 2024
@KarlE again I disagree. These Polish bike wagons take 8 bikes. But the seating is 4 abreast. Compared to 3 abreast in the compartment cars you’d still have as many or indeed more seats. That can’t be it.
Show threadKarlESep 17, 2024
@jon thank you for taking the time to adjust my lack of insight. I appreciate it! Keep up the great work! 👍
Show threadJon WorthSep 17, 2024
@KarlE Not in Poland. Poland has no control cars.
Show threadAntonia  Sep 16, 2024
@jon if you end up with the right people in a compartment you'll get a free polish lesson about the declension of the word kurwa
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@antonia Sure. The two in my compartment are fine. But I’m also a guy who behaves responsibly. Imagine being a young woman in a compartment of letchy men… euugghhhh.
Show threadAntonia  Sep 16, 2024
@jon well, i dont have to imagine that 
Show threadJTWSep 16, 2024
@jon weird. DB seem to be going in the other direction, with no compartments on some ICEs I took a few years ago. (Back before we knew about aerosols, we tried to make reservations for the family in a compartment by ourselves so we could take our masks off.)
Show threadJon WorthSep 16, 2024
@jtwcornell91 yes. But if you’re in a compartment with coughing strangers that’s the worst outcome of all!