Mastodon is the world's biggest community of people who deeply love computers and also think that the world would probably be better off without computers

@tomw Some of the most fervent technology hating luddites I've seen has been total nerds.

Seems like half of the folks in an anarcho-primitivist camp back in the days worked as programmers.

Like folks were tanning hides and talking about how PHP totally sucks.

@alemppu @tomw Be careful, you'll get those nerds properly riled up by using "luddite" as a slur! There's a very good analogy here that I don't think you meant, but luddites *were* technologists, they were the ones building the auto-looms, improving them, etc. it wasn't technology they were objecting to, it was the fact that unions were illegal and they were being told that their comfortable well-paid work from home jobs now had to come into a factory floor for a 10th of the pay.
@alemppu @tomw TL;DR they didn't hate the technology, they hated how it was being developed in the name of "progress" with no consideration for the externalities or how it would affect actual people. Sound familiar? :)

@sam @alemppu @tomw

I did not know that! Call me a luddite, then. ;)

@amin @alemppu @tomw welcome to the club, your laminated membership card will arrive by mail in 4-6 weeks!

@sam @alemppu @tomw This is identical to my objections to #nuclear

I'm sure the technology can be made safe. Would an Elon-owned NucleaX be run that way? Seems extremely unlikely.

@sam @tomw Umm... I'm a total nerd and an out and proud luddite myself.

And yes, the exact point is who controls the development of technics and tools and what is their effect to peoples and communities.

@alemppu @tomw my apologies then; let us convene the tribunal and smash some AI's and shit!
@alemppu @tomw This comment is just so funny -- and hit me really hard... I've gotten heavily into leather boots over the past couple of years (down to understanding the differences in leather tanning processes), while considering which programming language I should learn (since I've been out of it for so long).
@alemppu @tomw Next time you tell this story, let them scrape the hides they're tanning with 100mb ethernet cards.
@tomw so true ๐Ÿคฃ
@tomw
Don't get me wrong, I would like an omnipotent, benevolent AGI from Asimov's stories to rule the planet.
But until we get there I would appreciate it if companies would stop showing crappy LLM's and ML into every system imaginable.
@Landsil @tomw I would like the planet to not be ruled, but rather respected. But that's just me.
@Landsil @tomw AI is just the current "thing", much like crypto and NFTs in 2021-2022. That's why every company has to shove it in people's faces 24/7. They follow the hype and don't ask questions.

@Phracker2Art @tomw
Oh no, I managed to forget about NFTs, don't bring that fever dream up.

I actually think AI is much worse than the previous two combined.
On the face of it, it doesn't seem like an obvious scam like the previous two and it's often free to use.
People get used to vaguely horny, vaguely incorrect GPT answers and suddenly think that it's a good idea to use it at work.
I had no coworkers asking about using crypto for work, but bloody AI is constantly coming up for the stupidest of reasons.

@Landsil @tomw That's because people don't understand what AI is and think it's a magic bullet that can solve any problem.

@Landsil @tomw

Doesn't that always go wrong somewhere in his stories? XD

@amin @tomw
There are few stories where 3 AI run the whole planet and the worst that happens is that few people who are against are moved to less amazing positions to be less able to complain.

People that discovered that kind of shrug and don't tell anyone because they decide it makes sense for the benefits of humanity.

I think in the end decades later AI's slowly disable themselves after deciding that their existence is slowing humanity down or something.

I don't remember the title so I guess I have to binge all of his books again as soon as I'm done with Horus Heresy.

@Landsil @tomw

Been a while since I've read those specific stories so I guess I've forgotten how those ones turned out.

@tomw

... oh I don't know.. Computers have uses: for warming cats' asses.

@tuban_muzuru you can melt playdo with puter exhaust.

@poetaster

... is that so?

I did not know.

@tuban_muzuru well, today, i used the exhaust from my thinkpad to soften the gluegun glue i had used to fasten some wires on a sata hd. I just extrapolated from that :-)

@poetaster

Ingenious. All those hideous ethylene-vinyl acetates and their isomeric inbred cousins, a polyester here, a acrylate there....

@tuban_muzuru i admit, i'm partial to the fumes of solder flux. I'm a cuban cigar smoker, so i suspect that'll get me first. Ah, acrylates, i knew thee well.
The hd is a musical unstiment. A sort of computing tooter.
@tomw hesitated to retoot this because the counter was at 64โ€ฆ ๐Ÿ˜†
@tomw
Maybe just a little computer? 16bit at most.
@EndlessMason I'm just about happy with this but maybe I can push you to a 386?
@tomw @MercG
Love might be a bit of a strong word. Rely on them to make a good living in an interesting way and recognise they underpin the modern world yes.
@tomw the Venn would be almost a circle

@tomw I don't just feel like that about computers, but also about humans[big asterix].

*I definitely don't mean we should get rid of us. Just that the world would be better off, if we never evolutionized. Now that we exist, we should absolutely try to keep it that way.

@tomw We've found, anecdotally, that the most vocal and well reasoned arguments against including computers anywhere at all, come from programmers, engineers, and others you may consider "experts".

We know exactly how fragile and Bad these systems are, and have no illusions as to how easily they can, will, and do collapse entirely.

@tomw May I suggest that there is a significant subset who would say it would be better off without computers built on post-1980s CPUs.
@hamishtpb Yes I'm happy to join that club
@tomw Speaking as someone who's worked in IT for over 25 years I still prefer to use a pencil and paper

@tomw

I feel like I might distrust connectivity more than computers.

Should I delete my account? (lolz)

@tomw Maybe you include more people (also myself), if you replace โ€œdeeply loveโ€ by โ€œlikeโ€ and โ€œcomputersโ€ by โ€œsocial mediaโ€ - to which Mastodon belongs. And that was your issue. - Only some people on the spectrum (or the like) โ€œdeeply loveโ€ computers.
@Fietsbel โ€œWhen I use a word,โ€ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, โ€œit means just what I choose it to meanโ€”neither more nor less.โ€
@tomw You already said we love computers
@tomw The problem is always the business model. People here think, computers would be great, if they weren't corrupted by big tech's business models.
@kaffeeringe @tomw
Yeah I was going to say that computers aren't the problem, how they're programmed by some is the issue. Sometimes it's the programmer themselves (lazy attitude towards making the code robust), sometimes it's management (I need it yesterday - no, I don't care if it's not ready), and sometimes the top person (we want engagement, engagement, engagement). GIGO.
@tomw computers are just amplifying the lack of any media laws on what is "news"
@tomw ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

@tomw same with beer

'course I'm drunk, so ignore this

@tomw My 5 cents here is that we don't think the world would be better without computers, but without computers that can be operated using other ways than console commands.

@javipoloxyz @tomw Maybe I'm a know-nothing-normie but GUIs are good and fine actually, the stuff that sucks about tech is like, the manufacturers also collecting data on us and adding features that will be vestigial in two months but marketing or a suit said to include it.

Also printers. Printers suck.

@mdstevens0612 @tomw In fact I'm all-in into GUIs, I mean, I do some UI design for a living ๐Ÿ˜… But creating the false and convincing feeling of "easyness" in software products, making them pivotal in our day-to-day needs... Is somewhat worrying. Specially thinking in future generations.

We should all be more aware that this digital world system is COMPLEX AS F**K and much more delicate than it seems. Same as our data, privacy, and all that you're saying.

And printers. Yeah, that too.

@mdstevens0612 @tomw Consoles, obviously, make casual users to run away in fear. And that includes some good vibes now and then ๐Ÿ˜…
@tomw @viq Forcing rocks to think was a mistake...
@catsalad
The only good use for silicon is anti-slip surfaces (says person with two MAC addresses sticking out of their body)
@tomw