Mastodawn

I'm really struggling with my thesis work right now - I'm not sure I've managed to work more than one day in the last week... fortnight? And what I did get done was the more hands-on stuff, but the next step is "just" to sit down and write. And it's not like I have grand goals or anything like that - I just need to do SOMETHING.

But it's as if every time I as much as think about thinking about sitting down to do said work, my mind goes "nope!" and shifts focus to something else, anything else.

I know it's typical ADHD stuff, that I struggle to find the work motivating or rewarding in any way, and that I've probably been under stress for so damn long that all this nothingness is partly a freeze response. But I still need to fucking work.

And I'm so frustrated and angry and hopeless, because this inability to "do" have defined my life for decades now. I don't know how to change it.

What if I can't change it?

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@apparentlyrolly @ADHDAlly @theotherbrook @terri @Mustbetuesday

First of all, thank you for responding and for sharing your experiences. Even if I know a particular advice doesn't work for me, it's still been good to be reminded of the underlying principles behind it - sometimes adaptions might work instead. It's also just been good for me to work through this in writing, and it seems like it's much more effective in conversation than when just writing on my own. All of this have led to a lot of thinking, but the good kind.

--

Notes to self (trying to organise my thoughts - input is welcome):

I know what's most important: it's not a question of what to do, at least not to-do-list-wise. And I can technically break said task into bite-sized pieces, but I struggle with separating the "just start small" kind of bite from the everpresent looming dread that's attached to the entire project.

Sometimes I've managed to discard those attatchments by focussing only on the actionable task at hand, but that works best with physical kind of labour (dishes, laundry, taking a walk). It's not always easy, but I can do it. With mental work there is no thing to focus on, nothing I can touch, stare at, conceptualise into a neat object. It's... a blob of unknown, so it adopts its colour and weight from the larger project (so even the smallest task feels looming).

(1/4)

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

(2/4)

Telling myself to "just work for five minutes" or "just open the document" doesn't work to circumvent the dread. It's still attached. I've tried writing the simple task down on paper (as part of a list, on a post-it note, on drawing paper so that I could brainstorm and sketch out my feelings to help deal with the dread... nothing seems to work).

Checking things off of a list doesn't bring me joy (I envy the people for whom this triggers satisfaction).

I don't really have a support network, no one I can lean on or realistically ask for help or be accountable to. The one person I know in real life who "get's it", and that I feel close to, is not someone who's able to chat every day (or week or month for that matter). My nearest family would look at asking for this kind of help as a failure - I'm supposed to just pull myself together after all. They really really do not understand, to the point where they can't even recognise what I'm talking about (they try, don't get me wrong, they try, but those conversations always ends up with me feeling even more lonely).

enne🐝🌞Jul 2, 2024

@erica I feel this in my soul.
I'd be happy to provide some accountability if that seems like something that might help, or just someone to talk to.
I'm not really sure what to recommend other than things you've likely tried already: making a timer for 5 minutes and trying to write at least a little bit, gamified task managers like Habitica, etc.
There's also www.goblin.tools if you haven't come across it.

Erica the fae Jul 2, 2024

@enne Thank you so much! I always find it really difficult to reach out on my own, to the point where I don't think I can recall when I last called someone up or wrote to them just to rant or properly talk - I'm not even sure who I could do that with without it being awfully awkward (my real life conversations tend to be very superficial, like I don't know how to share anything that actually matters).
I really appreciate the offer to reach out to you - I will, I think (I hope). Please know the offer also stands from me, I will gladly listen.

enne🐝🌞Jul 2, 2024

@erica I completely understand. It can be difficult to reach out and make any deeper connections a lot of the time for me as well. I don't even know what to say in many cases! 🙂
Thanks for the follow. 🙏

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

(3/4)

Also, I desperately want to be able to do this on my own - to be able to choose a task and take action, without having to jump through hoops and hope for the best. I think I am able, technically, at least able to improve this ability, but it will take a lot of practise (both to shape better behavioural patterns and to build up my confidence and feeling of self worth). After all, I'm dealing with half a lifetime of desperate short-term coping mechanisms that hasn't let me build up functioning patterns (hello, daydreaming).

So, potential ideas:

Use mastodon as an accountability buddy?
1) clearly define desired task in actionable and easy to understand steps, including clear end-point
2) post it publicly (even though it's not the same as a dedicated person, I still feel like people care, so it's not like yelling into the void)
3) update the post when the task is done and comment on what was easy or what turned out to be more tricky than expected (will hopefully help me get a more realistic view of what it means to engage with the work, which might over time help lessen the fear of it)

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

(4/4)

Small managable tasks:
- break the day's work into really simple tasks, like "read the previous page" and then DISENGAGE!
- take five minutes, walk around or lay on the floor (a neutral zone for me) and just think
- when I have an idea, grab the computer and jot it down (continue if it feels natural, otherwise go back to just thinking)
- maybe a sub-task is to just sit with it (try, but gentle) for 20 minutes: if I don't write anything, okay, I'm still allowed to be proud for having actually tried (though difficult to actually feel)

A dedicated workspace:
1) sit on the floor with my back resting against the table (a drastically different place to anywhere I've tried to work before)
2) don't turn on the internet (which means work before play - I can look things up later)
3) unplug the laptop and take it with me (balancing it on my knees might make it easier to keep focus on it)
4) when sore it means it's time for a long break (get up, eat something, take a walk, do something practical)

Positive self talk:
- check in with how I'm feeling: am I proud of my own actions or am I feeling lost and scared and frustrated?
- if the latter, try to embody a better version of myself: I am okay, I am capable, I can take action (stand up straight, breathe, and focus on the here and now)
(risks triggering a bit of a spiral, but it also might help to disempower the dread)

The Other Brook Jul 1, 2024

@erica Sounds like you've got a lot of ideas to try!

I empathize so much with most of what you've written. It really could be describing me too.

My challenge is always getting started on the things I know I should do because they'll help me get started. Like simply going for a walk. I know it helps my concentration immensely but it means doing things like putting on pants and who has the time for that?

I'm a lousy accountability buddy and no one should ever believe me if I say I'm going to be one for them, but you might be onto something when you talk about using the platform itself in that role. I probably wouldn't be good at it but I hear John Mastodon is good at everything!

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@theotherbrook Pants, socks, shoes - and a bra! Plus a hat and sunglasses because the light is sharp, and maybe I should bring some paper tissues and maybe my camera and... Yeah, going for a walk sometimes feels like it takes a lot of work. I find I'm most likely to do so early in the morning, where I'm still riding on the tail end of the dopamine that makes us wake up, but before I'm online enough to really think about it. It's not like I manage it every day though

Doing it once I'm in a slump? Impossible.

Michelle / The Giddy Stitcher Jul 2, 2024

@erica @theotherbrook I've been managing to walk every day lately and am very proud of that, but literally the only reason I can keep doing it is because I've started putting on my walking clothes first thing on a morning as part of a stricter morning routine. If I wasn't already dressed there's no way I'd be keeping up with it.

And the only reason I can keep up with putting on my walking clothes and the rest of the morning routine, is because I'm back on Habitica and if I don't do it my party will take damage 😅

Basically splitting up the multiple parts of the "go for a walk" task into even smaller parts at different times of day!

So yeah, I get you. Not saying the same things will work for either of you, this isn't advice so much as just a general unsolicited share and a "I see you". But it seemed like a good idea to type out at the time...

Erica the fae Jul 2, 2024

@thegiddystitcher I appreciate it

ADHDAlly Jul 1, 2024

@erica I feel you on this. I have a lot of fear that I won't be able to get myself to do the things I need to do to accomplish what I want.

You're not alone :) It's genuinely hard and not your fault.

If you're looking for concrete advice: give yourself a little time to really feel this without trying to make yourself do stuff. A little pause helps to reset some of the anxiety.

Body doubling is great if you can find people you like to work with.

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@ADHDAlly Thank you.

And yeah, brute forcing it both doesn't work and ends up adding more negative experiences to the entire thing. But I've given myself grace and patience and forgiveness for so fucking long and I'm still not anywhere near being okay.

Though, writing it out does seem to at least keep me engaged with all of this rather than just fleeing like I'm wont to do.

About body doubling, I don't have anyone like that, although I do think it would help. I've considered using FocusMate, but just the thought of having to be "seen" makes me feel anxious and uncomfortable.

ADHDAlly Jul 1, 2024

@erica I hate feeling like people are looking at me too - which makes online bodydoubling hard.

Have you tried coffee shops? There's one near my local University and sitting with a bunch of other people who are studying is almost as good for me as something more focused.

I'm also working on finishing something that has lost all sense of novelty. It's such a grind and so hard to focus on.

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@ADHDAlly Yeah, coffee shops and libraries - even the quiet section. If I'm lucky they work for a day or two, but I've always ended up just sitting there wasting time (reading fanfiction, daydreaming or fiddling with my sleeves). Part of it is that I'm very noise and other input sensitive - where some seem to thrive with (or need) music or other background data to focus, for me it ends up being distracting and annoying.
And the entire getting into town part is it's own ordeal that takes a lot of energy.

Gosh, this sounds like such a negative mindset - like I'm just coming up with excuses (or at least, that is what I can imagine someone saying as a counter-argument). But they're based on real life experiences, you know? I haven't really had many good experiences with trying all the usual things.

ADHDAlly Jul 1, 2024

@erica Yeah. Fundamentally, its hard. I totally understand trying all the things that *should* work and not having them work.

The Other Brook Jul 1, 2024

@erica I recognize you didn't ask for advice, but if you are okay with it I'll tell you a thing that's worked for me in similar situations. (At the moment I'm thriving in the chaos of having a zillion things of equal importance to bounce between,)

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@theotherbrook Yes, please!

The Other Brook Jul 1, 2024

@erica Okay!

So first, I'd go to a coffee shop I liked but which wasn't frequented by people I knew. It doesn't have to be a coffee shop but just somewhere away from the distractions of home. ("Has the stuff in the fridge changed from the last time I looked? Nope. What about now? Is it different now?")

Then I'd put on my headphones and start playing music I've loved since my early teens. You know, the stuff you can lip sync along to without any conscious thought whatsoever. That always helps to hypnotize my brain weasels.

Then I'd start a Pomodoro timer app I installed on my laptop. 25 minutes of work, a short break, 25 minutes of work, repeat...

No matter how much I'd be procrastinating at first, after a couple Pomodoro cycles I'd find myself on break getting excited about the idea I just had and couldn't wait to get back to work on. The breaks were essential to recharging.

Of course we all ADHD differently so I'm not going to swear this works for anyone else. Another thing that helps me is giving myself permission to drink Gatorade (not sure if that vile concoction exists where you are) but only if I'd checked the label to make sure it was sweetened with glucose (usually labelled as "dextrose" when used in food products). Glucose is the brain's food and getting it straight instead of having to break it down from more complex carbs is an instant boost.

Here's more on Pomodoro if you aren't familiar with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique

Pomodoro Technique - Wikipedia

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@theotherbrook Thank you!

I've tried going to other places before and it never really worked - but perhaps I should give it a try again, just in case?

My main problem with it is noise - I'm not one of those who can listen to music or a movie or simply people talking without being utterly distracted to the point of annoyance. I think a lot of ADHD'ers thrive with music or added sound of some kind, but my brain does not like the extra input (a good playlist works wonders for physical work and podcasts are brilliant for crafting, but when trying to write or think I need silence).

I absolutely agree with you about the importance of breaks - in my good periods it has worked really well to work for 55 minutes and then get up for 5 minutes (it really helped med recharge, as you say, and kept me from burning out too easilly). Perhaps I need to lower the time expectancy significantly, at least while I'm struggling this much?

Although if I tell myself to "just work for five minutes" my brain automatically adds "but you're expected to keep working" and "remember how terrible you felt the last time you got stuck? yeah, it's gonna be like that again". It's as if I can't separate the individual task from the whole, if that makes sense?

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@theotherbrook Also, good reminder about the sugar! We do occasionally have gatorade although it's rarely a shelf stable in most stores. I've been fond of making milkshakes though.

Drinking something sweet doesn't seem to do that much on it's own, but I have definitely noted how less likely I am to get anything done if I haven't eaten or drunk anything. Plus drinking something nice helps make the entire situation at least a little more pleasant.

The Other Brook Jul 1, 2024

@erica That's one of the most frustrating things about it. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

Terri K O 🍁Jul 1, 2024

@erica things that helped *me* when thesis writing:

1. Walking instead of writing. I was much better able to focus on putting together ideas when I wasn't at the computer, so I'd go for walks and tell myself the imaginary story of my thesis, then bang out an outline when I got home. Or sometimes not, but then I'd least had a walk and gotten some sunlight which also helped?

2. Sleeping. Maybe this was a sign of early burnout, but I slept a lot including naps when I was writing. Probably an hour or two longer than I would when not writing. All that cognitive churn is exhausting, and once I realized I actually *needed* a lot more sleep and started accepting it instead of trying to keep to my old schedule or worrying if I was sick, it made a big difference. I forget my stats but I think I was able to write about 30-50% more on weeks when I had enough sleep.

3. My supervisor recommended setting a goal of 2 pages per day. The goal itself wasn't very helpful (I apparently don't get motivated by page counts), but his acknowledgment that 2 pages was a reasonable average told me in a easily measurable way that this was going to be slow.

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@terri Thank you.

I'm not sure I'm able to "work" on my thesis while walking - I'm far enough in the process that I know exactly what I need to work on, but it's combining different pieces of data and formulating "nice" sentences - you know, not the exciting ideation phase, but grunt work effectively where I need to look at the source material (I'm not able to keep it in my head). But taking a walk is certainly a better option than "ugh" based doomscrolling or what other avoidance tactics my brain jumps to (daydreaming mostly, I lose hours to that).

I've definitely also noticed needing more sleep. I think I'm afraid of sleeping the entire day away in pure avoidance, or napping and then ending up not being able to sleep at night yet waking up when it get's warm and therefore not getting enough sleep anyway. On the other hand, I'm already not going to bed at any reasonable time, so maybe I should just ignore day rhythms entirely and use naps as a frequent reset button.

I don't get motivated by page counts either (yet even really small goals manage to feel stifling and unovercomable). But I get your point, I know going slow is the way to go. My problem is that I've been going too slow so I'm running out of time - and I've already used up all my options for extensions and breaks and sick leave etc. so I genuinely don't have time to keep doing nothing (unfortunately, this pressure doesn't trigger any "oh, shit!" mechanic, it's just added pressure).

Jamie Jul 1, 2024

@erica I see you have welcomed advice from others, so hopefully this is ok.

Here is a weird idea: what if you take your laptop (if you have one) into your closet and do a bit of writing in there? It's dark and quiet so there aren't any distractions, and idk some people like sitting on the floor. Also possibly turn off the wifi if you don't need google docs or to do research or anything?

Also also, I wonder if it would help to have "open the doc and read a bit of it" as a task on your to do list. That way, 1) there's a lower effort thing that you can check off fairly quickly, 2) it gets your brain back into "this is what I was writing about" mode, 3) if you do this every day, you might start thinking about what to write while walking/showering/driving/lying down to sleep, and it might be a bit easier to write something down next time you're at the computer.

Also here is a website with like a flow chart of basic needs stuff: http://youfeellikeshit.com/

I'm wishing you good luck!

you feel like shit

You feel like shit. That sucks. You Feel Like Shit is a game designed to help you help yourself through your shitty times and practice self care.

Erica the fae Jul 1, 2024

@Mustbetuesday Thank you

I have never thought of sitting in my closet... technically that would be a bit difficult because of shelves (and so much stuff), but I really like taking the idea of "create a dedicated work space" to the extreme. I live in a really small appartment, so it's not that easy to find somewhere new to sit and work - but hey, maybe I don't need a table! Gosh, this has certainly got some ideas flowing...

And yeah, I definitely struggle with the task feeling like "too much", so breaking it down into managable parts is key. I think part of the problem is that I can't separate the small first step from the looming dread of the entire project. I'm trying to think of ways I could force that separation, to only think of the task right in front of me.

(also, thank you for the link - I hadn't seen that before, it looks like a good resource)

@erica literally in the exact same position you are in right now, i also just ranted about it lol