that's true but what floods socials is "both sides the same" anti-intellectualism and troll farms pushing people to not vote with learned helplessness
so you get this cross chatter
"why are you standing against valid honest criticism of biden?" (they're not, the trolls are real and need push back)
vs
"why are trying to help trump" (they're not, they're engaged in honest criticism of biden and will vote for him)
so trolling works: everyone suspicious of motivations
They are not "pushing back on trolls." They're shutting down valid criticism of Biden or any other centrists, mainly from Black folk. They know that we are (some of the very few!) real Black people on the fediverse. They just don't care.🤷🏿♂️
They don't accept anyone not showing fealty to Biden. They feel entitled to 95% or 100% of the Black vote. They say as much.
And some folk that have valid criticism of Biden will not vote for him. About 1 in every 5 Black men in fact.
This isn't about trolling confusing people.
This is about one-way solidarity, and Democrats feeling entitled to the entire Black vote, while simultaneously supporting the very things that destroy Black lives.
As I said before, about 90% to 95% of all Black women, and 80 to 85% of all Black men will vote for Biden. That's a lot! And that has to be enough. Because that's all he's getting.
The people that scream "Trump is worse!" without listening to what anyone has to say, aren't "confused by trolls." They're behaving selfishly.
I have friends that don't behave selfishly.♥️ I have white trans friends that are rightly terrified by what a 2nd Trump term will mean.
I have friends that are Black women that know everything about Biden that Black men know.
They see people posting criticism of Biden, and yet somehow they don't jump in with the "Trump is worse!"
1. *nobody* can condescend to black people with this bs: " you fix what white racist MAGA gave us"
that's patronizing sleaze
vs
2. russian troll farm and MAGA agent provocateurs are real
they work inflexible idealism, to convince people not to vote
1 and 2 are totally different
but then comments regarding 1 are attacked as 2
and comments regarding 2 are attacked as 1
the social media hell of stripped context
and then we fight each other
divide and conquer
😔
@mekkaokereke @benroyce @WuMargaret
I'm sorry, but you pulled that "20% of black men won't vote for #Biden" stat out of your ass.
There is NOTHING anyone (regardless of race) can criticize Biden for that #TheOrangeMenace wouldn't be DEMONSTRABLY worse on.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
if some 0 follower russian troll farm hack starts spouting divide and conquer learned helplessness "both sides the same" bs, squash them
but mekka is not remotely that
he's got receipts and i always learn from his insights
i've clashed with plenty of biden criticism on mastodon and most of the time it ends with "but i'm still voting biden"
so let the man speak
listen
and learn
do you see the optics of a bunch of wypipo yelling at a black guy?
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
Saying, "It usually ends with: I'm still voting for #Biden", isn't what he said.
He's playing a dangerous game, discouraging support for the person with the best chance of defeating a #Hitler-quoting #Dictator-wannabe serial #adulterer #racist #sexist billionaire #conman who is SO massively incompetent, 405K Americans died (arguably) preventable deaths under him (and resulted in another 800K after leaving.)
Vs an honest & effective potus with record low UE.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
many people have valid problems with biden, myself included, but understand why it's important to vote for him
so you see complaints about biden but for all you know it's just someone working out their frustrations, registering them, and they will vote for biden in nov
see that for what it is
but if you hit them with this "YOU WILL FALL IN LINE AND SHUT UP," especially when it's a bunch of white folk yelling at a black dude, do you see the problem?
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
Again, I point out that he NEVER indicated he'll still support #Biden.
He's playing a dangerous game.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
we're all playing a dangerous game
for example: we need biden to win, but some insist on shutting down all criticism of biden, alienating those who just want to work through their valid frustrations
you're not dealing with some brain removing edgelord going "BoTh SiDeS tHe SaMe" here
when you DO see some zero follower account doing that, squash them
but that's not mekka
LISTEN to him, don't jump to preformed suspicions
simple as
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
You keep arguing as if he's saying, "I'll still vote for #Biden b/c T**** is worse."
No. He has made NO indication that that is the case. He even seems to suggest he'd actually vote for #TheOrangeMenace if he doesn't get what he wants out of #Biden.
@MugsysRapSheet @benroyce @WuMargaret
🤫And I'm not going to! You folks that yell at Black men online but do nothing meaningful to support us, aren't entitled to know who I'm voting for, or if I'm even voting at all. Y'all can sit there and worry about it.
All you need to know is that ~80% of Black men will be voting for Biden. That's more than enough. You ain't getting every vote.
Go focus on some of the cohorts that are voting closer to 80% for Trump.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
it doesn't matter. what matters is doubting the sincerity of a prominent black voice
maybe you're black yourself and feel empowered to do so because of that
again, doesn't matter
just listen and let people work out their frustrations and engage them topically, not doubt their sincerity
on *your* topic i think this just about says it all, but getting more people to see it this way does not come from your current approach:
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
so what?
who are you to make that demand?
do you see how it's patronizing and condescending, and avoiding the real topic?
and when it's a bunch of white people doing it to a black guy, that's salted with some heavy shit. so don't do it
just listen and learn. what is mekka saying? why is it important? engage him on *that*. think about it. understand it
don't demand acquiescence as your reply without a single thought
it works against your goals
@MugsysRapSheet @benroyce @WuMargaret
🤣 I'm not spreading any disinformation. And I haven't told anyone not to vote. I'm telling you *why* Black people in particular Black men, are not going to vote for Biden.
It's in large part because of people like you, and interactions like this one. But you're still going.
You're fortunate that I even take the time to tell y'all this. Most Black dudes would just tune you out and never tell you, or even smarter, wouldn't come to the fediverse at all.
@raven667 @MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
we need ranked choice voting to get better choices
it's creeping in (maine, nyc, etc), mostly under democrat acquiescence, while the GOP is all about voter suppression
so vote democrat and demand rcv
@raven667 @MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
exactly
the system sucks
but you don't just throw up your hands and let malice win- because revolution? not happening, fantasyland. mutual aid, direct action, and protest? well if you let malice have the system they machine gun you
so you do all that is good outside the system, *and* you vote
because it's so little effort to sabotage the malice you're fighting, not because you believe it will be rainbows and unicorns as to the outcome
@MugsysRapSheet @benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret maybe another way to describe the underlying fear here, is that wishy washy whites have a scorpion nature and Dems are the frogs trying to cross the river with them tied to our back.
I dont believe for a second that Mr Okereke isn't voting for Biden, he is far more thoughtful than that, but it's hard to have normal political discussions about politicians who are bad in normal ways when there isn't a sane opposition and not voting is suicide
@MugsysRapSheet @benroyce @WuMargaret
80% to 85% is all you're getting from Black men. Make your peace with that.
You can bet against me on "20% not Biden" if you'd like. But I'm just going to be annoying post November when you're wrong, and I post my little Blackstradamus emojis (🧙🏿♂️🔮).
I'm also taking bets on "more white women will vote for Trump than Biden."
And ah yes... "Trump is worse!" Got it. A deep and insightful observation. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
Great wisdom
Engaging on a topic:
Engage on topics
Don't demand someone kiss the ring as a reply to someone engaged on a topic
This entire election may depend upon black voter turnout in like... Milwaukee
So you open your ears and you *listen*
If you open your mouth and *demand* a black guy behave a certain way, wtf?
Black America has the power here
So job 1, before anything else: show some bleeping respect
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
If you are disappointed in #Biden, fine. But you KNOW you stand a better chance of moving him to do the right thing than if #TheOrangeMenace worms his way back into the WH.
So don't openly discourage people from voting for current disappointments when the consequences of a T**** victory would be FAR more consequential.
@MugsysRapSheet @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
I agree 1,000%
But how do we reach those who don't understand that? Or, they understand it, but want to voice their frustrations?
If the latter we simply shut the fuck up and listen and let them vent.
If the former we certainly do not doubt their sincerity and demand fealty. That's not going to move them an inch man and will more likely move them further away.
It's all about respect.
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
It's incredibly challenging.
"Facts" work best on #Democrats, while #Republicans are driven by #Emotion. Just listen to how T**** talks about #Immigration. "They're coming to kill you & your children. They will rob you, sell Fentanyl to your kids, and carry disease."
It's why I call the #GOP: "The Party of Fear".
"Undecideds" will be one or the other. If logical, give them facts. If emotional, talk about how T**** is a Hitler-quoting wannabe dictator.
@mekkaokereke @benroyce @WuMargaret
it's a basic civics misunderstanding, on both the part of anybody who would let that discourage them from voting strategically and the people who complain about those kinds of posts, to equate criticism with trying to lessen Biden's vote.
I mean why discuss issues and policy at all? who knows what silly ideas people might develop about who to support from that kind of talk? just tell people who to vote for and try to silence those who disagree.
@wjmaggos @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
it's all about context
context, context, context
some people don't care to or understand the need to grasp context, or lack the nuance to see what it is and why it's important
@benroyce @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
I guess but I'm not sure I've ever seen someone here that criticized Biden from the left seemingly just to try to hurt his turnout. They've been honest expressions of their views, even when they say they can't vote for him (which imo is a bad choice in states that could go either way). I've seen lots of posts trying to silence criticism of him without engaging the criticism.
And we don't yet have nearly the wide variety of views here that I'd like to see.
@wjmaggos @mekkaokereke @WuMargaret
because of context
there's plenty who will criticize biden but will still vote for him
and plenty who will criticize biden and never vote for him, despite everything on the line. self-destruction
then we have the criticisms and they're undecided. so let them speak and work through their frustrations
then we have nonamerican russian troll farm purposefully pushing learned helplessness
it's a shitstorm through and through
the problem is divining intent
Don't trust the polls.
They either say "Biden's winning," inspire false confidence, so people don't vote, then Trump wins
Or they say "Trump's winning," which depresses people, so they go "what's the point?", don't vote, and Trump wins
The only thing to do is #vote
It's a simple social responsiblity and a lot of our problems are from people who don't vote.
Vote
Nothing else matters. No other thought counts.
@benroyce @LuLuLove
Plus, besides polling in the USA not being able to accurately measure American public opinion anymore, fake push polls are being used by the GOP to prop up their fundraising too since people will stop donating their money to them if they start to think that Trump has no chance.
There's nothing we can do about what they do, but we can not react to their untrustworthy polls and instead just try to get more people to support Democrats this election year.
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES
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