jwzJun 22, 2024

Mozilla's Original Sin.

Some will tell you that Mozilla's worst decision was to accept funding from Google, and that may have been the first domino, but I hold that implementing DRM is what doomed them, as it led to their culture of capitulation. It demonstrated that their decisions were the decisions of a *company shipping products*, not those of a non-profit devoted to preserving the open web.

Those are different things and are very much in conflict. [...]
https://jwz.org/b/ykVr

Mozilla's Original Sin

Some will tell you that Mozilla's worst decision was to accept funding from Google, and that may have been the first domino, but I hold that implementing DRM is what doomed them, as it led to their culture of capitulation. It demonstrated that their decisions were the decisions of a company shipping products, not those of a non-profit devoted to preserving the open web. Those are different ...

Show threadFlorian IdelbergerJun 22, 2024
@jwz disagree. I know many ppl that would or could not use Firefox if they hadn’t and like this it’s a viable alternative. What do the gazilion Mozilla/netscape/firefox or chromium forks/alternatives do for the open web because they disable drm or replaced / removed other functionality? Not much.
Show threadjwzJun 22, 2024
@fl0_id "But some people would not have used Firefox" is exactly the argument for market share over principles that got us into this mess.
Show threadFlorian IdelbergerJun 22, 2024
@jwz not ‘some people’ but basically no one would have used it. I don’t disagree that it (engaging with market realities) is also a problem, but that does not mean that the opposite would have been better
Show threadAndresJun 23, 2024
@fl0_id @jwz See, we always knew that if Debian didn't include binary kernel drivers, no one would use it. And that's how it faded away into obscurity, and definitely didn't become the basis for multiple of the most popular linux distributions while also itself maintaining a healthy user base.. 🧐
Show threadgullevek ☢️ 🇯🇵Jun 23, 2024
@Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Isn’t Ubuntu so popular because it adds back all the stuff Debian didn’t add?
Show threadJohn Goerzen

@gullevek @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz I've been using #Debian since at least 1996. I don't know what it's missing that is holding me back. Ubuntu is missing a lot, particularly in support for less-popular architectures.

Isn't Ubuntu popular with people that want the latest and greatest and don't like Debian's release cycle?

And that's fine, but completely orthogonal to this issue.

Jun 23, 2024 at 1:07amWeb
Show threadgullevek ☢️ 🇯🇵Jun 23, 2024
@jgoerzen @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Can’t really say. Also Debian user here since forever. But it just felt like Ubuntu has all this extra shiny that Debian doesn’t have.
Show threadJeremiah C. Foster 🇸🇪🇺🇸🍥Jun 23, 2024
@gullevek @jgoerzen @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Not really. It’s ~80% Debian. The is rest proprietary drivers and technologies no one uses, e.g. snaps, mir, upstart, lxc. They provide commercial support which businesses love.
Show threadgullevek ☢️ 🇯🇵Jun 23, 2024
@jeremiah_ @jgoerzen @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Snaps are a pain in the ass
Show threadArcticulateJun 23, 2024
@jeremiah_ @gullevek @jgoerzen @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Ubuntu is responsible for getting Linux known among mainstream PC enthusiasts on a global scale. I say ”enthusiasts” (and informed ”regular” people) because they haven’t focused on every demographic, unlike a handful of companies’ distro attempts in the 1990s, like Lindows/Linspire, Caldera (aka SCO 🤦‍♂️), Mandrake/Mandriva, etc.
Show threadJeremiah C. Foster 🇸🇪🇺🇸🍥Jun 23, 2024
@Arcticulate @gullevek @jgoerzen @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz Good point. I remember getting a Ubuntu CD in the post for free.
Show threadSemitonesJun 23, 2024
@jgoerzen @gullevek @Andres4NY @fl0_id @jwz a when I was getting started, Ubuntu was billed as a Debian you didn't have to configure yourself. Kind of like a "Debian for the rest of us"