Patricia AasMay 23, 2024

Ok, I’m sorry, I’m going to ruffle feathers here but… I’m trying to read some newer development process books and… oh my… even super popular ones are so immensely long winded and unconvincing in their dogmatic argumentation: this is bad, this is good, because I said so that’s why.

Recent examples that I’m struggling to finish: “Team Topologies” and “Data Mesh” - I mean they might be great but I’m getting strong “this should’ve been a blogpost” feels.

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
The worst part of Agile and Lean etc has been the wave of folks earning their living telling you confidently how to build while they themselves have barely ever shipped anything.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I mean… get that money I guess… but it sucks to be continuously refactored *cough* reorged because someone who can’t build read the executive summary of a book by someone who can’t build.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Jeez this was hash, Patricia. Eat your dinner.
Show threadPatricia Aas
I’m dying. “If people are talking with each other of their own accord that’s a bad sign because…” I don’t even know.
May 23, 2024 at 4:36pmWeb
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Dear lord are they reinventing silos but with fancy words?
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I ate. And it didn’t help.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
“Monolith bad!” “Micro services good!” “People talking bad! People talking is basically a MONOLITH 👻”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I think maybe I shouldn’t be allowed to read.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Seriously so far the good parts of Team Topologies are the parts they have taken from other peoples work.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I suddenly remembered the Agile Coach I pissed off a few years ago that angrily told me he had actually been a dev for two years fifteen years ago!
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Omg these people are ridiculously condescending
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Help. Why do folks love this book?
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Please. It is a mashup of 10 other pieces of original work.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
If only the mashup made sense. But it doesn’t.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024

I can’t. “This is how you simplify things for these silly dev folks who struggle to understand even basic stuff.”

“How to break down large domains”

If you think that there is a Perfect Org Breakdown for all the things I believe you don’t know anything about anything.

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Fuck it. I will refuse to listen to anyone saying “team cognitive load” to my face.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I posit that this book is result of a bunch of folks who are personally struggling to understand how anything is ever built by anyone.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024

“Here is example number four of a team who struggled to keep up with requests after a lot of people started to use, love and depend on the thing the team had built”

“They are struggling because… actually… they are extremely dysfunctional and not actually… extremely successful”

Grrrrr 😡

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I’m sure they TALKED WITH THEIR USERS ☠️ fuck that monolith behavior.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
You should break them up right now. This is the death of software.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Ok, they are ripping off everyone, but they don’t even understand the stuff they ripped off.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
“Here is someone else saying you shouldn’t introduce bottle necks. WELL ACTUALLY, that means PEOPLE SHOULDN’T TALK WITH EACH OTHER”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I can’t. Sometimes they stumble into something I agree with and then five seconds later “ah, yes, someone else’s idea”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
They are not even internally consistent because they’re ripping off everyone else: you should have stable long running teams, but you should definitely split up the teams because of this fucking number someone else made up which is unfortunately completely different than this other number someone else came up with which you should definitely also use. Except it is an order of magnitude bigger. So. Do that. Right? Get it?? COGNITIVE LOAD!!!
Show threadMatúš ChochlíkMay 23, 2024
@Patricia This whole thing sounds like a good topic for the next 2h-long FoldingIdeas video essay :P
Show threadÓlafur WaageMay 23, 2024
@Patricia I missed patricia rant threads.
Show threaddemofoxMay 23, 2024
@Patricia honestly everything you are saying is why I hate "programming culture". It's cringe, it's gross, it's naive.
For whatever reason, I don't see as much of that in (client side) game development other than the occasional "new c++ feature" fanboys/fangirls and am glad to watch it from afar :P
Show threadcaitpMay 23, 2024

@Patricia I'm pretty sure if you say outlandish opinionated stuff about something a lot of people have a lot of money riding on, that affects a lot of people, you'll get enough people talking about the book to retire early and never have to care about it again

so maybe that was the plan all along?

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@caitp I mean, if you just throw out parts of everybody else’s books you are bound to manage to piss off everyone or possibly creating a religion.
Show threadAlper Çuğun-GscheidelMay 19, 2025
@Patricia And who have never built anything themselves.
Show threadMark vWMay 13, 2025
@Patricia Good name for a bowling team, though.
Show threadGryMay 23, 2024
@Patricia I'm utterly confused about that myself. I think the book is terrible, but many love it
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@grymt thank goodness it’s not just me
Show threadGryMay 23, 2024
@Patricia Have you seen the presentations and so on? It's the most confusing thing ever and the prices for talks and workshops are crazy
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@grymt I need links. I need to see these talks. They cannot possibly worse than this…. Right???
Show threadGryMay 23, 2024

@Patricia not sure what's worse, but it's useful to have a look so you know when someone have been too inspired

https://teamtopologies.com/talks

Talks — Team Topologies

Learn about Team Topologies from public or private talks

Team Topologies
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@grymt thank you!
Show threadMrs BeanbagMay 23, 2024
@Patricia well people still like the bible so
Show threadWaltteriMay 23, 2024
@Patricia oh no! the book has been waiting in my shelf, bought based on the recommendation(s) of some former coworkers. is it really this bad? 😂😅
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@anotherwalther I mean… apparently… people like it? I don’t know if they have actually read it or just looked at the pictures or something. Basically every thought in tech ever is in there squashed together in a narrative that makes zero sense to me. And that are often in direct contradiction to each other. So upside is you can find a quote to support any opinion.
Show threadCharlie StrossMay 24, 2024
@Patricia It sounds like the sort of book that annoying managerialists can point to and loudly announce that they've read it and it says to Do The Thing This Way, and nobody will call them on their bullshit because they're all secretly afraid of being exposed as not having read that book. They exist in every field. (Is that plausible?)
Show threadPatricia AasMay 24, 2024
@cstross it is so plausible it’s frightening 😭
Show threadÓlafur WaageMay 23, 2024
@Patricia Remember the "thought leader" that said "if coding doesn't feel like painting or passionate creative writing then you're not a real programmer."
Show threadÓlafur WaageMay 23, 2024
@Patricia Oh and I found this while searching for the quote.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@olafurw *nods knowingly*
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@olafurw I am more of the “I suck, I don’t know anything, I should learn a completely different craft… omg I am brilliant! Rinse and repeat” developer.
Show threadArne MertzMay 23, 2024
@olafurw @Patricia ow. You HAD to dig that one up, didn't you?
Show threadÓlafur WaageMay 23, 2024
@arne_mertz @Patricia blast from the past.
Show threadAlper Çuğun-GscheidelMay 24, 2024
@Patricia OK. I’ll continue to not read the book and crib from what I feel is the vibe of the book.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 24, 2024
@alper just make up whatever you want it to mean
Show threadAlper Çuğun-GscheidelMay 24, 2024
@Patricia I’ve been kinda doing that already anyway.
Show threadMatthew SkeltonOct 11, 2024
@Patricia sure - we acknowledge this. Building on the shoulders of giants etc.
Show threadÓlafur WaageMay 23, 2024
@Patricia "It depends" is so often the answer but "It depends" doesn't get you views or sell books. So the ones that (sometimes sadly) float to the top are people with strong opinions.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@olafurw 😭😭😭
Show threadKensanMay 23, 2024
@olafurw @Patricia My thoughts exactly when I read @Patricia’s toots. Nuance does not sell and neither does ot generate clicks, retweets/toots, favs etc
Show threadmrangeMay 23, 2024
@Patricia but now I am told microservices are bad. Behold... the modular monolith!
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@range_marten Micro Monoliths! Or Distributed Monolith! I can’t. Anyone telling me there is a “one size fits all” causes me to assume they have never actually done anything at all.
Show threadmrangeMay 23, 2024
@Patricia I must distributed ball of mud is the best because that's what I end up building everytime :)
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@range_marten my architecture is following the “spaghetti and meatballs” pattern *nods sagely*
Show threadmrangeMay 23, 2024
@Patricia The best I can hope for is "Pearls held together by duct tape"
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@range_marten I’m happy if there are even a couple of pearl-like artifacts in there somewhere.