Ok, I’m sorry, I’m going to ruffle feathers here but… I’m trying to read some newer development process books and… oh my… even super popular ones are so immensely long winded and unconvincing in their dogmatic argumentation: this is bad, this is good, because I said so that’s why.

Recent examples that I’m struggling to finish: “Team Topologies” and “Data Mesh” - I mean they might be great but I’m getting strong “this should’ve been a blogpost” feels.

The worst part of Agile and Lean etc has been the wave of folks earning their living telling you confidently how to build while they themselves have barely ever shipped anything.
I mean… get that money I guess… but it sucks to be continuously refactored *cough* reorged because someone who can’t build read the executive summary of a book by someone who can’t build.
Jeez this was hash, Patricia. Eat your dinner.
I’m dying. “If people are talking with each other of their own accord that’s a bad sign because…” I don’t even know.
Dear lord are they reinventing silos but with fancy words?
I ate. And it didn’t help.
“Monolith bad!” “Micro services good!” “People talking bad! People talking is basically a MONOLITH 👻”
I think maybe I shouldn’t be allowed to read.
Seriously so far the good parts of Team Topologies are the parts they have taken from other peoples work.
I suddenly remembered the Agile Coach I pissed off a few years ago that angrily told me he had actually been a dev for two years fifteen years ago!
Omg these people are ridiculously condescending
Help. Why do folks love this book?
Please. It is a mashup of 10 other pieces of original work.
If only the mashup made sense. But it doesn’t.

I can’t. “This is how you simplify things for these silly dev folks who struggle to understand even basic stuff.”

“How to break down large domains”

If you think that there is a Perfect Org Breakdown for all the things I believe you don’t know anything about anything.

Fuck it. I will refuse to listen to anyone saying “team cognitive load” to my face.
I posit that this book is result of a bunch of folks who are personally struggling to understand how anything is ever built by anyone.

“Here is example number four of a team who struggled to keep up with requests after a lot of people started to use, love and depend on the thing the team had built”

“They are struggling because… actually… they are extremely dysfunctional and not actually… extremely successful”

Grrrrr 😡

I’m sure they TALKED WITH THEIR USERS ☠️ fuck that monolith behavior.
You should break them up right now. This is the death of software.
Ok, they are ripping off everyone, but they don’t even understand the stuff they ripped off.
“Here is someone else saying you shouldn’t introduce bottle necks. WELL ACTUALLY, that means PEOPLE SHOULDN’T TALK WITH EACH OTHER”
I can’t. Sometimes they stumble into something I agree with and then five seconds later “ah, yes, someone else’s idea”
They are not even internally consistent because they’re ripping off everyone else: you should have stable long running teams, but you should definitely split up the teams because of this fucking number someone else made up which is unfortunately completely different than this other number someone else came up with which you should definitely also use. Except it is an order of magnitude bigger. So. Do that. Right? Get it?? COGNITIVE LOAD!!!
Ok. That’s it. If you say Hot Desking is Good Actually… no.
This book is made for cherry picking quotes to support whatever you want. Just make sure no one else can be bothered to read it.
I think maybe there isn’t a single thought that anyone has ever written about in tech that they haven’t taken into this book. But the only times they make logical sense is when they’re literally quoting other people’s text.
Seriously. I am going to become a software process Luddite after reading this. “Google big, Google scale, Google smart” “You not smart” “Make silos and don’t talk to anyone” “make API call to George, but not too often!”
Dear lord they have now said that Netflix-Spotify-Nokia-Ericsson-Google-dhh-Amazon (and basically everyone else) do stuff and you should do stuff too. But don’t bother the pretty little heads of your cognitively struggling/overloaded teams of some size between 5 and 50 or something.
Breakdown silos by breaking up your long running teams! And… break up the team building database software because that’s basic stuff probably.
We are not allowed to use the words Software Engineering before we stop reading these books.
I will never be allowed to work with any Agile Coach ever
Patricia Aas (@[email protected])

I’m sure they TALKED WITH THEIR USERS ☠️ fuck that monolith behavior.

Vivaldi Social
This is completely true and also the most devastating burn: this book would’ve been an order of magnitude better if it was written by a large language model.
This is basically just re-making the most dysfunctional orgs pre-DevOps but now with CLOUD! And Ops goes under 5 different names because the ideas have been taken from at least 5 other places. And for goodness sake: don’t talk, but also talk serendipitously while hot desking! And do stuff like Amazon and Google and Nokia and Spotify and… all of the orgs that have ever written about whatever they do.

And I sound smart and deep because AND THIS IS AN ACTUAL LITERAL QUOTE: “a stream should flow unimpeded”

I am deceased 💀

Why do I ever get imposter syndrome? I probably talked to people like a fucking monolith
I know why this couldn’t have been a blogpost: it doesn’t make sense and you can’t hide that in a blog post, people might actually read it all.
I’m gonna try one of these talks… maybe they’re… something
https://mastodon.cloud/@grymt/112491761784898442
Gry (@[email protected])

@[email protected] not sure what's worse, but it's useful to have a look so you know when someone have been too inspired https://teamtopologies.com/talks

mastodon.cloud
@Patricia The 2001 monolith was quite effective.
@Patricia a steam??
@mrsbeanbag fuck. Stream. I fix.
@Patricia ok that makes marginally more sense but it does raise issues about oxbow teams
@Patricia Without context, I can see it meaning “leave the smart people keeps everything up until they burn out”. The success case of those books is people just doing their thing despite their bosses.

@Patricia Echoes of “How can I grow if you won’t let me blow” 🙂

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt83zQdunBo

Friends: Rachel Reads “Be Your Own Wind Keeper” (Season 2 Clip) | TBS

YouTube

@Patricia thank you for this thread.

Yeah. Everyone has been reinventing Gilbreth for a century.

@Patricia Dear Lord, crushingly honest @Patricia dishing Truths! We want more! We want more!
@Patricia maybe it was? Reading your narrative, feels like it was.
@InkomTech I think unfortunately it came out before the LLMs
@Patricia well, then by a mediocre/stoned/fish-out-of-water mba. Which you gotta admit, LLMs sound like.
@Patricia the fact that there's so much horrible [nonfiction] writing from the pre-LLM era implies that we live in one of two possible dystopias: either genAI eventually develops time travel and goes back to the past to poison human knowledge, or humans, on average, make no more sense than LLMs.
@againsthimself I mean… they got it from somewhere

@Patricia My take on people with "education" in "Agile": they have no clue what Agile really means, lest having done something Agile-ly themselves.

Talks instead of deeds.

@Patricia Anyone who declares "developers are fungible" should be exiled to somewhere they can't hurt anyone.

@Patricia

I really want "Patricia reviews tech books". I would so hit that subscribe and like button.

As a former dev for decades, turned security nerd, this kind of babble infuriates me.

One can develop and ship code. One can work on a team. Teams can deliver.

The book's hodge-podge of quotes sounds like #AI generated "slop". Individual nuggets of sanity, pasted together with insufficient context.

They needed a bigger token window, and to add "keep the result logically consistent"

@pseudonym that would’ve been an improvement
@Patricia I must say I enjoy Spicy Patricia book reviews 🤣
@Patricia I formed my own one-person SPL chapter a few years ago.
I think, I'm just seen as the cranky old guy who isn't particularly incredible at his job so we don't need to listen. But at least I have a cause.

@Patricia The idea that google works that way is a fantasy and whoever says it does, I want to talk to them right now.

Google *looooooves* meetings. YAQS is dying. Everyone is encouraged to run office hours. Documentation is often dramatically out of date.

@Patricia People have this bizarre fantasy world vision of Google, which only really existed briefly before the advent of google cloud but after the majority of search tech got built. You know, the early android, g+ and google wave years.
@Elucidating oh I don’t think he ever actually said what it was that google did that was good but he kept on saying SRE because I think he learned a new word

@Patricia I still want to meet them so I can deride them. I am a google sre. I'm on one of the top 10 highest incident load teams, one of the few tier 1 rotations.

I know how this works. I know how SRE does and does not scale. This process you're describing sounds a lot like "if you have a bunch of SRE you can dump all your problems on them and becuase they're a distinct org it'll all get hashed out at the VP level and you can collect promo and leave before it's done."

@Elucidating that was way too coherent. I literally can’t tell you what he was trying to say but it at least implied that you are very smart. As opposed to the rest of us I guess.
@Patricia damnit, that book is on its way to me. If you posted this a few days earlier, I could have saved a few bucks
Thx for the *cough* *cough* executive summary though :)
@willemsst read it and do the world a favor and make a reading list of all of the other people’s original thoughts they have squashed together in there.
@Patricia oh dear god no. Hot Desking is a quitting offense
@Patricia This whole thing sounds like a good topic for the next 2h-long FoldingIdeas video essay :P
@Patricia I missed patricia rant threads.
@olafurw Patricia shouldn’t be allowed to have social media while reading 😳
@Patricia I'll have a strong opinion about this and say I disagree.

@olafurw @Patricia Seconded. We all need to hear @Patricia scream-review bad books so the whole Fediverse learns what’s what.

Please and thank you.

@Patricia honestly everything you are saying is why I hate "programming culture". It's cringe, it's gross, it's naive.
For whatever reason, I don't see as much of that in (client side) game development other than the occasional "new c++ feature" fanboys/fangirls and am glad to watch it from afar :P

@Patricia I'm pretty sure if you say outlandish opinionated stuff about something a lot of people have a lot of money riding on, that affects a lot of people, you'll get enough people talking about the book to retire early and never have to care about it again

so maybe that was the plan all along?

@caitp I mean, if you just throw out parts of everybody else’s books you are bound to manage to piss off everyone or possibly creating a religion.