a hopeful socialistApr 7, 2024

No country is your friend. I say this as someone who actively believes that the average Cuban enjoys more economic and personal freedom than the average American.

Countries do not have friends. They have interests. Even the socialist ones.
#ForeignPolicy is not about right and wrong it is about power, getting more of it, and holding onto what you have.

Understanding this is what drives ALL foreign policy decisions made by EVERY nation is the first step in navigating news and discourse about things like the #ukraineconflict and the #gazagenocide. Why does the US condemn Russian war crimes but not Israeli? Because #Israel is a US ally. Why does the US condemn Iranian sexism but not Saudi sexism? Because Saudi Arabia is a US ally.

Likewise, #Russia shields the DPRK from UN Security Council resolutions not because they're supportive of socialism but because they're getting weapons from them.

Every contradiction, every hypocritical act taken by any country on the international stage for at least the last 200 years becomes logical when you approach it from a basis of power.

Show threada hopeful socialist

When I defend self-described #socialist countries, it's not because I think they are "better" countries or that they're "good" countries fighting the "bad" #capitalist ones. Heck, I don't even have to agree with or believe in their politics.

#CriticalSupport for places like #china or #cuba is important because their actions and problems are scrutinized by western academics, news, and audiences with a fine toothed comb for anything remotely negative about their societies while literally ignoring the same thing or redirecting blame onto something else besides "#capitalism".

Stub your toe in Moscow in 1935 and it's proof of #communism's failures, but homeless people dying in the cold every winter in the United States? Oh that's something #charity can fix, even though it never has.

#ActuallyExistingSocialism #AES #nonprofit

Apr 7, 2024 at 12:33pmWeb
Show thread𝗖 𝗔 𝗧Apr 7, 2024
@thecommunistpig
I disagree. Critical support for authoritarian regimes like #China or #Cuba isn't justified just because #Western media scrutinizes them unfairly. There are biases in Western #media, but it's important to hold all governments, regardless of political ideology, accountable for their actions and human rights violations. Instead of defending or providing critical support for oppressive regimes, we should instead advocate for #solidarity with the oppressed groups in these countries
Show threada hopeful socialistApr 7, 2024

@Radical_EgoCom this makes me think I should review what I know about critical support to make sure I'm not incorrect about what it is, but I am not sure if these are mutually exclusive.

I think you'd agree that oppressed groups in other countries aren't helped with US-led sanctions and interventions in their homes. I don't believe one country can liberate another like that. Critical support for the socialist countries, their societies, but not necessarily their government or leaders.

For example, isn't a person who lives in a country that guarantees housing as a right, as many past and current socialist States do, in a better position to liberate themselves than someone in a capitalist country? Shouldn't I support systems that keep people housed, fed, clothed, supports their education, promotes gender equality, and other goals of a social revolution?

This is what someone does whenever they support specific laws or proposals to improve conditions under capitalist countries, so why shouldn't it be done for the socialist ones?

I mean hey, maybe you don't support things like welfare and minimum wage, plenty of socialists make principled arguments against them, I just personally think that policies that improve people's material conditions are positives in practically every context, and so it would be inconsistent and hypocritical for me to say "I support the US minimum wage being increased to 20 dollars an hour and indexed to inflation" and not to also support Chinese efforts to lift themselves out of poverty as well.

Show thread𝗖 𝗔 𝗧Apr 7, 2024
@thecommunistpig
Supporting laws in socialist countries to improve people's living conditions isn't what I'm arguing against. I'm arguing against supporting oppressive governments, whether they be socialist or not. One can support a law or legislative proposal because it's what's best for the people without supporting the goverment involved.
Show threada hopeful socialistApr 7, 2024

@Radical_EgoCom right, the problem with many general audiences in western liberal democracies is that they're largely ignorant of any of the systems and institutions in socialist states and their positive impacts for the people of those countries.

You may have seen other people who's critical support amounted to nothing more than "Stalin did nothing wrong and Putin is good because he opposes the US" and I emphatically do not mean that. I support the achievements of socialism while criticizing the mistakes and actions of governments and leaders in those countries.

Given how much the United States wants regime change in these countries, it just results in spending a lot of time dispelling misinformation and clarifying things in countries like China, Vietnam, Cuba, and more.

I want to dispel the notion that exists in many minds that somehow Thailand isn't inherently authoritarian because it's capitalist while Vietnam is because it's socialist.

Show threadJeremy ListApr 7, 2024
@thecommunistpig no capitalist dystopia deserves any more of our support than any other.
Show threada hopeful socialistApr 7, 2024

@jeremy_list the quality of life for the average person in socialist countries of comparable economic development is pretty much universally better. Literacy, infant mortality, life expectancy, gender equality, home ownership rates, all the material conditions used to measure human development, all better under socialist states.

How is that dystopia when compared to the United States, or capitalist regimes in the global south?

Show threadJeremy ListApr 8, 2024
@thecommunistpig China does not have infant mortality, life expectancy, or gender equality even as good as the states, all of which is a direct consequence of having rolled back the few actual socialist policies they used to have before I was even born.
Show threada hopeful socialistApr 8, 2024
@jeremy_list prove it. Which country has more readily accessible abortion access? Which country has better healthcare, both quality and access? Which country has a growing middle class?
Show threadJeremy ListApr 8, 2024
@thecommunistpig you're missing the point: material differences between China and the US would only be relevant to this discussion if China's government policies were actually more socialist than the US, which they haven't been for a long time.
Show threada hopeful socialistApr 8, 2024
@jeremy_list [citation needed]