Cirnos
Anthony B,Things I want from a kettle: make water hot.
Things I do not want from a kettle: an engaging interactive experience.
Things I do not want from a kettle: an engaging interactive experience.
Speaking as someone who was the father of a new born having to do the every 4 hour trip to the kitchen to boil the kettle and prepare formula, drop the previous bottle into boiling water, repeat. I had a system worked out. If the kettle had tried to offer my sleep addled brain witty bromides, well that kettle would be an ex fucking kettle and I'd be staring at the microwave going "you wanna start something, or will you just heat water and shut up?"
If I wanted to have a conversation with my home appliances, I would buy a fucking Furby. No one wants to have to deal with "the fridge can't get an Internet connection". It's a box that makes things cold.
Kettle: make water hot
Fridge: make things cold
Toaster: make bread hot
Oven: make many things hot
Dishwasher: make things clean
Lights: makes things visible
Rice Cooker: make rice hot and damp
None of these should require a fucking internet connection, generative (not actually) AI, or a fucking app.
No one actually *likes* to be forced to use this spicy autocomplete shit, so that's why they will continue to stuff it into everything. I give it 12 months before a company advertising "when you contact us, you won't have to deal with this shit" will be a competitive advantage. I mean one of the reasons customers of AussieBB are evangelists for them is that almost always when you talk to them, the front line folks can fix the issue immediately.
As opposed to the ISPs that TPG has consumed where your conversation is with someone in another country where the voice channel has been compressed to hell, and you're told "I will file a ticket, someone will contact you within 48h"
Brett McKenzie@swearyanthony I do miss when TPG's frontline could understand that I can diagnose an issue.
Now it's me: "my ntu is dead, I've tried different points in my UPS and otherwise, I need a new ntu"
TPG: "Let me send it some messages"
Me: "It's dead"
TPG: "Hmmmm, I'm not getting a response"
Me: "..."
TPG: "I'll need to send this to our technical team"
**Almost exactly 24 hours later**
TPG: "we've determined there is a problem with your connection, and have notified nbnco to arrange a tech"
@swearyanthony credit to nbnco though, the tech allocation was fast.
paul
StarkRG@swearyanthony Much like how "user replaceable battery" is extremely high on my feature requirements for a new phone. Similarly TVs should display stuff and tune into RF signals, not be really shitty computers that can't be upgraded or replaced, spy on you, and serve ads at you. Oh, and cars should move you around at your direction, not be moderately shitty computers that can't be upgraded or replaced, spy on you, and whatever else those car-shaped spy machines do.
Baron Vonskinnback@StarkRG @swearyanthony absolutely, a car shouldn't need an app & an internet connection...
@Vonskinnback @StarkRG "oh my phone is flat, I can't unlock my car"
mirabilos@StarkRG @swearyanthony @Vonskinnback the nice cracker around the corner might be able to open it for you 😹
@mirabilos @StarkRG @swearyanthony I am hoping one day that this will be a thing, the ability to replace cells at a reasonable price rather than having to replace the entire battery at the cost of thousands, along with after market firmware/OS & traditional key opening without the need for an app, along with standard charging across the industry, we have only just managed that on mobile phones & that was because the EU put it's foot down...
@swearyanthony @StarkRG @Vonskinnback no, what I meant is, they can likely quickly break into your carputer
@StarkRG does anyone still do that?
@swearyanthony Do what? Go places? Have TVs? 😋
@swearyanthony Can't agree more, with one quibble.
A lot of this kit has touch screens now. Even when it's not connected to anything. I don't want an app, I want physical buttons, knobs, and so on. But for kit with touch screens, an app might be the only way I get to use the device (due to accessibility issues).
It's a weird world for sure, and I'd rather no app and no touch screen of course.
And I suppose for other accessibility considerations different from mine (I'm blind) other people might benefit from an app. The pity is that we don't have some kind of universal API for this and have to install weird per-device applications.
@modulux I like buttons with one exception that our toddler likes pushing buttons and I would very much like the way to have a toddler lockout
@swearyanthony Yep, some sort of lock system is good, maybe a difficult to move slider or a combo of buttons far apart that need to be pushed at the same time.
@modulux I mean our little tiny monster will sort out how to subvert it, but it might slow him down a little
@modulux a very dear friend of mine who's no longer with us tweeted "have been locked out of my lightbulbs, the future is great"
@swearyanthony Seriously, it's a mess. With most things one can get the right thing with some care, but for example induction stoves are almost always touch screen driven. Hard to get a TV that isn't "smart" and so on.
@modulux that's grimly interesting. I dont mean that dismissively, at all. It took me having a baby and a pram to start reporting all of the accessibility fails around our suburb, because I hadn't even noticed them
@modulux re TVs we didn't even realize our TV has physical controls until our toddler found them and he would turn the TV off and we spent weeks trying to find how he was able to do it
@modulux holy lack of affordances batman.
@swearyanthony Haha, they do touch everything, don't they? Of course so do I, pretty much the only way I can learn my environment. I'm sure it was a hassle for my parents.
HollieK@swearyanthony @modulux Toddlers will find the buttons on anything!
Kevin Karhan 
@modulux @swearyanthony Whilst #touchscreens can increase #accessibility and #longevity (no button / force needed) they also can hinder intuitive operation.
- There's a resson we have buttons and knobs and levers in cars, ships, airplanes and even on bikes and scooters: You don't want to click through menues to be able to turn off the radio, activate warning lights or pull over...
You want immediate and blind control...
@kkarhan @swearyanthony Yes, the accessibility thing varies. It does improve accessibility for people with motor difficulties in handling buttons, but for blind people it tends to do the opposite. I say tends because in principle it is possible to make accessible touchscreen systems but it's quite unusual in appliances.
@modulux @swearyanthony the only form of "accessibility with touchscreens" I've seen are either alternative menues & audio navigation (like on most modern ATMs in Germany) - bypassing touch entirely like a phone tree - or some #TTS reading where one swipes if not the entire screen.
I'd love to really dive into this...
@kkarhan @swearyanthony The model for touchscreen accessibility is mobile OSes like iOS and Android. They have the TTS approach, allowing to touch the elements on the screen and using double tap to select. It's not ideal for devices that may require quick action such as a cooker though, in my opinion.
@modulux @swearyanthony nodds in agreement cuz with like a stovetop or similar there are ways to make settings feelable (indicator position on the dial and clicks to confirm settings)...
- Same with manual transmissions in cars where one can feel the position of the stick...
Ideally the optimal approach would get focus-group tested by disabled people to find the best balances...
Heliographme: tries to open smart fridge
smart fridge: checks BMI
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"
@amiserabilist @swearyanthony The smart fridges with cameras in them? You thought they were there so you could remotely see what you needed to buy. They are actually there to sell data to the health insurance company.
Maj1 THE Neuro Spicy Squirrel@amiserabilist @swearyanthony One of the reasons our fridge is a dumb as a post! 😆
maya_b 🇨🇦as an aside, my automatic brew into a thermos automatic coffee maker pre-dated any AI/MD/DS/SmartAppliance nonsense and worked just fine. And didn't even need to be turned off because it brewed into a thermos carafe and didn't have a hot plate that needed any intervention.
best coffee maker ever. discontinued of course.
GunChleoc@maya_b @swearyanthony I just bought one of those. So, they're still around, even if it's not the same brand that you had.
@maya_b @swearyanthony We got this one: https://www.krups.de/p/pro-aroma-km305d/7211003305
There are other brands available too https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kaffeemaschine+thermoskanne&t=lm&ia=web
Thanks! Mine was an old philips one from ~20 years ago and had a digital timer/clock on it. A friend had the earlier version with an analogue clock/timer on it.
Good to see machines with basic no nonsense and only useful features are still being made :D
NegativePrimes@swearyanthony THANK YOU!!!
The Evil Chocolate Cookie move@swearyanthony I disagree. An app can help you keep an eye on things when you otherwise might not be able to. You never catch me touching stove without a timer I could not personally watch. I can’t see the one on the thing, so it’s either get an app or can find to the microwave for the rest of forever, which holds less risk of open flame, but can’t cook as much. I hate fire.
Adrian Cockcroft@swearyanthony I find it useful to have notifications on my phone for my oven - up to temp, timer, door left open, and remote turn off. Also for washer and dryer finished cycle.
FOURTH DROWNED@swearyanthony ADHD here
(As you well know)
I would LOVE IT if my toaster or kettle would tell me when their job is done.
I would also love it if my washing machine could remind me that I put a load on a few hours back.
They don’t need the fucking internet. But networked in my house so they can remind me I started a thing? Yes please!
@swearyanthony I’m so not fucking kidding.
I have days where I’ll boil the kettle like five times and never actually have the cup of tea.
I’ve gone back to my desk and hyperfocused on something else and forgotten the tea. Every twenty minutes.
@swearyanthony (this is also why I’m committing ecocide with nespresso pods)
JohnnyThanI can relate to that. Exactly with the tea. Or I open the windows in the house to let some fresh air in (planned for 10 minutes) and am wondering 2 hours later why it is getting so cold.
I am now putting a timer on my phone. 2 min tea, 10min windows, and if that timer goes off I stand up and do what I wanted to do. Works good enough for me. :)
@swearyanthony Things that require you to physically interact with them (putting bread in a toaster, water in a kettle, etc.) only ever need physical controls. Furthermore, mechanical controls (knobs, levers, etc) are almost always preferable to electronic controls when possible (the keypad on a microwave oven is one of the few instances where electronic controls are preferable to mechanical ones).