Lauren Weinstein
Matt Blaze@lauren I'm not sure I understand the objection. Why should I care, as a reader, what platform someone I follow uses to post, or, as a poster, what platform someone who wants to follow me reads me on?
@mattblaze That you don't understand is why Zuck and friends are getting such a laugh.
@lauren Yes, you're right. I don't understand. I'm not trying to be difficult. I honestly don't understand!
Kyle Memoir 🍉🐧Does it help if someone reminds you these are platforms run by Nazi sympathizers and other varieties of fascist?
Or are you being deliberately obtuse?
@f800gecko @lauren Should I conclude you don't have any way of explaining without being deliberately insulting?
I'm sure I'm missing something. But I'm not stupid in general. So what am I missing?
I think you are stupid in general if you don't get it.
That's not meant to be insulting.
It's a kindness, meant to challenge a misapprehension you have about yourself as a self-described 'scientist'.
Social and political sciences are disciplines, too.
You seem entirely blind to them.
@f800gecko @lauren I wish you luck in becoming better able to explain things to stupid people like me.
zapharYou have quoted no social or political science studies to support your position in this entire thread. You seem to think the science supports you and yet can't be bothered to go into why. Which makes one wonder if you even know what the science says here or if you are just cargo-culting it.
I have no love for Facebook or Meta. I don't hang out on any of their platforms. Yet when someone hosts a post from there it creates no harm toward me and occasionally has useful content. If you think the Fediverse can't survive contact with content form other platforms then that says more about the Fediverse than it says about the content itself.
CoffeeGeekYou know Kyle, this kind of rudeness is a lot more accepted over in Tweeterville. Perhaps you'd find yourself more comfortable over there.
kolya@mattblaze
You're just missing some ideological fear and hatred, which Facebook has accumulated not undeservedly.
@f800gecko @lauren
You're just missing some ideological fear and hatred, which Facebook has accumulated not undeservedly.
@f800gecko @lauren
@kolya @mattblaze @f800gecko Or to put it another way, why would ANYONE trust Meta given their history?
@kolya @f800gecko @lauren I get that there are ample reasons to mistrust Facebook (which is why I don't personally use it). But I don't see how this is different from any other federated site run by sketchy entities (of which there are already plenty).
@mattblaze @kolya @f800gecko Please name the federated sites operating on a significant for-profit basis. Not talking about just trying to cover costs plus a bit. I mean ads, the whole works. Like Meta.
@lauren @kolya @f800gecko I don't know. I don't keep track of them. But I know there are federated sites run by a variety of entities, many with policies and ideologies I disagree with. And mostly, I don't notice. I don't see how this is different.
I'm not trying to be difficult. At two of your followers have called me stupid for not seeing something obvious here. But I really don't see the cause for alarm here.
@mattblaze @kolya @f800gecko Well, I haven't called you stupid. I might suggest you are being a bit naive on this particular issue, but nobody's perfect.
@kolya @mattblaze @f800gecko Say what? See my detailed replies. Of course, Mastodon probably isn't showing them to you since its reply thread mechanism is so bizarre.
@lauren
How would ads be different to the spam and other bad content we already have? Why wouldn't we able to deal with it the same way we do now? @mattblaze @f800gecko
How would ads be different to the spam and other bad content we already have? Why wouldn't we able to deal with it the same way we do now? @mattblaze @f800gecko
@mattblaze
Yes, I don't either. I heard some fears of embrace and extinguish tactics, ie FB might extend the protocol with proprietary features etc, but I don't see that working out realistically with ActivityPub being a @w3c standard.
@f800gecko @lauren
Yes, I don't either. I heard some fears of embrace and extinguish tactics, ie FB might extend the protocol with proprietary features etc, but I don't see that working out realistically with ActivityPub being a @w3c standard.
@f800gecko @lauren
Raven Onthill@mattblaze @kolya @f800gecko @lauren well yes but we usually block those. Meta is an exceptionally bad actor and must be treated with great caution. See https://erinkissane.com/untangling-threads
Dan Riley@mattblaze and @lauren going at it over mastodon non-governance. This was *so*, *so* on my Bingo card.
Joe ❌👑@mattblaze @lauren There is no push mechanism. If anything from Threads shows up here, it is because someone from here is following someone on Threads, or because someone boosts the content. There is nothing that gives Zuck the power to push unsolicited stuff into the Fediverse, the way he does on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads.
@mattblaze @lauren Yes, I agree with you. The sheer size of Threads, and their tolerance for things that aren't acceptable here, may be a problem. But I think it would be better to wait and see how it plays out. Instances who allow federation with Threads now are free to change later.
@mattblaze @not2b Meta has a clear and present financial motive to push as much as possible (and boost engagement on those posts) -- and will always be happy to spew a pipeline of sewage toward Mastodon (where a financial motive doesn't exist for all practical purposes) for anyone who likes to swallow deeply of such. Meta will NEVER be willing to permit a flow back from Mastodon/Fediverse that isn't heavily restricted and subject to arbitrary cutoffs, especially if content threatens Meta's financial interests. Clear enough for a starting point?
@mattblaze @not2b That depends. If you're ethically comfortable with helping such an entity profit (or at least attempt to profit) off the work of Mastodon/Fediverse sites -- and offering nothing in return in terms of comparable value -- then that's a personal ethical decision. Presumably you can plug your ears to avoid hearing Zuck's laughter!
@mattblaze @not2b Not at all. I didn't say you were being unethical. I said you have to decide if your ethics are compatible with the situation. Apparently they are.
Norman Wilson@lauren @mattblaze @not2b That you sound, frankly, cut from the Zuckermusk mold here. I've known you (far more distantly than Matt) for long enough to wonder if you really want that.
Francisca Sinn@lauren Holy smokes that’s an outrageously aggressive answer to what seems a very genuine question. Enough that I’m no longer interested in anything else you might have to say. Unfollowed and muted.
@lauren @mattblaze @not2b But if the Zuckerbuggers really want to profit off Mastodon, aren't there other easy ways to do it? e.g. they could make their own node to mask the link, and yes, others could defed it, but it becomes a whackamole game.
Thom@mattblaze @lauren @not2b I don't fully understand myself, but my default is that on average Meta does nothing that doesn't benefit it's shareholders, they do not have the common good as a core value and they are one of the prime practioners of enshittification. I may not fully grasp why yet, but the less involvement with them the better.
@mattblaze @lauren @not2b I see how it will affect my own experience: it will enable communication with a few good people I know who, for reasons I don't comprehend, don't mind Zuckworld, and for reasons I do get, don't grok or don't like Mastodon.
Lou Katz@oclsc @mattblaze @lauren @not2b There you go with your own pesky "free will" argument again. How can you be politically pure then? Don't you know that gluten-containing bio-engineered high-fructose sugar is hazardous to your health?
@lou @mattblaze @lauren @not2b It doesn't matter. Lauren has blocked me, so I'm an unperson. Nobody can see me plotting against the Ethically Proper Revolution.
The Gray Witch
Kevin Karhan 
@lauren @mattblaze @not2b not only that but #NSAbook / #StasiBook (lets be honest and not allow them to make us ignore their vital contributions to #PRISM among other #Enshittification|s!) have legally unacceptable Terms they force upon,others, they don't respect the concept of #consent or refusal to provide it (see their illegal "#ShadowProfiles") and they're platforming illegal #hatespeech...
That alone are solid reasons why I can't and won't use them even if I wanted to...
Fluffy Kitty Cat@lauren @mattblaze @not2b their busniess model also depends on.captive audiences to squeeze. Federation let's people leave then an instance gets nasty. Think they'd let people flee here when threads goes south?
@fluffykittycat @mattblaze @not2b Note though that the lack of post portability on Mastodon is a serious detriment to active users actually migrating to different instances.