Got into an interesting discussion on what matters in communication.
Nuance gets missed a lot when people tell half-truths. For instance, an astonishing amount of folks say they want gas as their heating system because of power outages.
Most gas-fired systems still need electricity to operate. Which, anyone who has lived with one during a power outage, already knows.
That half-truth is that a gas-fired system can more easily be supplied with emergency power. But most people don't have that.
So does the point even deserve to be made?
Truly, I think it doesn't.
The loss of any primary system becomes an emergency in extreme cold. And you'd be better-off to prepare for that.
A gas-fired heating system is not preparation for that. It makes one consideration easier, sure. But first and foremost people need to make that consideration - which most don't.
And there are plenty of backup options. I, for one, would rather have some propane on-hand for a portable heater when shit hits fan.
@TechConnectify It's like your "but sometimes" video!
Is it possible to hand-light a gas stove when the electricity is out? Yes.
Why are you planning for the 0.5% use case? This is a house, not a space ship.
@timjclevenger @preinheimer And that was a tragedy which would have been prevented if any of the following occurred:
1. Texas would grow the fuck up and connect their grid to the rest of the country
2. Emergency preparedness was front-and-center in peoples' minds, both on individuals levels and in the minds of the powers-that-be
3. Sensible building standards were created and actually enforced to reduce energy needs and also extend the time homes stay warm without power
@TechConnectify @timjclevenger @preinheimer FWIW, we had an ice storm that knocked out power here in Montreal at the start of April last year. We were without power (read: without our heat pumps, and baseboard heaters) for ~40h. It was below 0°C outside for much of that.
After the first day, I ran the generator to power the fridges and recharge our backup batteries.
I showered after ~30h, and we washed some dishes. Still had tank hot water.
It was fine.
@sean @TechConnectify @timjclevenger @preinheimer
It's worth very little. You'd die of heatstroke in a Texas summer, and Texans don't have insulation like you do. They don't have baseboard heaters. They don't have heat pumps. They don't have basements.
They don't have wool clothes. They don't have clothes in sizes meant to accommodate a lot of layers. They don't have what you'd think of as winter coats at all. You can barely find them at all.
What did you add, exactly?
@alexhall @TechConnectify We have a pellet stove that has an auxiliary 12V input for backup power to run the fans & fuel feed.
It comes with a simple procedure for manual ignition in battery mode (as the electric igniter needs full mains power).
It also knows when it's on battery power, so it keeps a trickle of fuel burning between cycles as a pilot flame so you don't have to keep manually re-lighting.
And yes, we maintain a battery for it. I live in Alaska.
@peregrine Yeah, they're fantastic. I've seen people run very large heat pumps off a portable generator. You just hear the generators gradually get taxed more as the heat pump spins up.
Of course, in extreme cold, the heat pump can't produce a whole lotta heat on its own - and sizing the generator to run the heat strips, while possible, means you're buying a gnarly one. But even just a heat pump by itself will probably keep you well above freezing.
@TechConnectify and lets be real, in these kind dangerous scenarios, usually the local gov opens up warming centers for helping people stay safe and warm, while highly paid people work overtime to get it back within 1-3days at worst.
We live in a society, after all.
@peregrine If I were absolutely committed to resilience, I'd probably get a 100-gallon propane tank, use it to power a generator, and run a line to a through-wall propane heater for the days a heat pump might not be enough.
And that's really what gets me, here - there are so, so, soooooo many ways to do this with even more resiliency than relying on the gas grid to be there and working.
@TechConnectify I would suggest this heavily depends on the context that an audience brings with them. If they’re predisposed to one thing for irrational reasons, a nuance that directly addresses that rationality might put a stick in their front wheel and cause them to reevaluate. Here the nuance is less important as the body of the message, its functioning as a hook to open the door for the key message.
If you’re starting from zero or a rational position, then sure, the edge cases matter less.
@TechConnectify Pretty off topic, and edge-case of edge-case... watching your connextras video, and in the "backup options are good" section.
I had a cold day where my heat-pump worked, but was ineffective, but the gas-backup didn't. And the "smart" thermostats response to this was "I guess I can't heat the house at all then. I guess they'll just die" instead of using the inefficient heat pump.
(Not a low-temp heat-pump, because "Seattle" and "gas furnace backup")
@TechConnectify in either way when you have a power outage, you're screwed.
When I lived in a *really* rural area (for Polish standards) it was basically a must to have a diesel generator because power outage during winter would definitely last many hours and it would be a no-go to be without electricity for that long
@rail_ @TechConnectify
How rural?
Where I live, there's a power outage every winter during peak cold that usually lasts like 6h contiguous, and then they start turning it on and off at seemingly random times until noon next day.
I don't have a diesel generator, but I do have a UPS to keep my gas furnace running during an outage.
Though I guess there are places that have it much worse.
@wolf480pl @TechConnectify well let me put it that way
we once had an outage and the roads were completely blocked, it took over 24h to get power back, close to 2 days actually - because the power company techs simply couldn't get there
and a UPS is (should?) be basically a must have for any kind of combustion heating furnace
tho we needed a diesel generator for farming stuff mostly
@rail_ @TechConnectify
Yeah that's rough.
A good enough UPS would handle the furnace, but I don't think anyone has a big enough water tank at their home to still have running water after 2 days without power
Zasilacze awaryjne POWER SINUS to nowoczesne urządzenia typu UPS pracujące z zewnętrznymi zestawami akumulatorów i oferujące stosunkowo duże moce na wyjściu i prądy ładowania w stosunku do standardowych serii sinusPRO E i W. Oferują moce wyjściowe w zakresie 1500-10000W jednocześnie udostępniając możliwość modyfikowania parametrów pracy takich jak np.: rodzaj podłączonego akumulatora i charakterystyki ładowania, głębokość rozładowywania akumulatorów, tryb oszczędzania energii, zmiana trybów pracy etc. Modele z tej serii są dość uniwersalnymi jednostkami, a dzięki wbudowanemu przełącznikowi trybów pracy (AC/BATTERY) stanowią idealne rozwiązanie w miejscach gdzie akumulatory są źródłem zasilania awaryjnego i chcemy dodatkowo wykorzystać sieć do podładowywania baterii. Główne zastosowanie zasilaczy typu POWER SINUS to awaryjne zasilanie układów dużej mocy np.: w serwerowniach lub na liniach produkcyjnych oraz jako alternatywne źródło zasilania w zabudowach samochodowych (najczęściej w kamperach, foodtruckach, pojazdach technicznych itp.).
@wolf480pl @skry @TechConnectify i know there are ;p
there are UPSes that can sustain your entire data center for a while
but it's a matter of cost and how long it will actually work with no power
@TechConnectify Can confirm. My gas furnace needs electricity to run the pump that moves the water to the baseboard radiators. Of course the thermostats also require power to open the valves. My hot water heater has no wires connected to it at all, it's completely mechanical. My grill and cooktop can be used in an outage.
All that said, power outages here (Connecticut) are so rare I hardly give these advantages any weight.
Probably the same people who haven't bothered to properly insulate their houses and then complain about exorbitant energy costs during winter…
Solar panels, batteries, and heat pumps, with propane as backup in case of an extended outage when solar won't suffice to replenish batteries FTW
@TechConnectify this (the main one) is a point worth making repeatedly, I think.
There are a lot of people, even very smart ones, to whom the fact that their boiler depends on working electricity simply never occurs.
@TechConnectify I definitely liked this video unfortunately the climate I live in a heat pump would likely struggle through the majority of our winters at -40.C to -50.C. I'm glad to see these heat pumps becoming more efficient in very cold weather.
Our primary heat source is heated floors with a boiler. And supplemental forced air heat. Both systems are oversized and capable of operating in place of another.
We've actually taken steps to operate both systems in the event of a power outage as an extended outage could be life threatening.
My first choice would be the boiler as its analog thermostats and pump controller all consuming 300 watts to operate the entire system. I've got several battery backups and a tri-fuel generator just incase.
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