At #37c3 they have IRC, and Matrix for text and for voice they setup their own LTE/2G/3G/SIP/DECT network where you bring whatever phone-like device and pick a 4 digit phone number.
Meanwhile in the USA for #defcon they just paid Discord money and told everyone to accept their privacy policy, and even the DC Privacy Village asks people to sign up for Slack and Google.
People ask why I fly to CCC from the USA. It is because that is the closest place to find a thriving hacker culture.
Now I have to figure out what autocorrect meant by ‘wondering station’ I think I meant Soldering stations. But woodworking equipment too.
The what? The who? What question is this answering? The BLT is on the PDQ? Ok.
@levampyre @lrvick @jstsmthrgk
It’s nice to know a bit more of the possible pitfalls. It’s obviously not easy and possibly problematic. The most common trad variant I’ve seen is Art Guilds. Usually just shared painting & drawing space, fee shared studio, perhaps shouldered by single proprietor giving lessons and get together.
I’ve seen some ceramics guilds supporting a Kiln try pure commercial.
Prob some hot rod garages have loose partnerships.
Better eqpt needs resources of more than one
Yes, our tangents didn’t quite entangle. I don’t speak the alphabet soup jargon. Appreciated.
Props bei den Antworten freundlich zu bleiben
@levampyre
sorry, Verein is not automagicly a nonprofit.
And CCC is not even charitable ("gemeinnützig"). And this for good reasons.
@levampyre
I am sorry, can you point me to it?
Even wikipedia states the wirtschaftlicher Verein,.
You are contradicting a lot that I have learned the last 20 years.
Idealistic ones are optional and only necessary when you do non-profit aka charitable.
Wirtschaftliche Vereine, like GEMA
@levampyre
I am quite happy with for profit stuff. Given that a lot of non-profit goes too much into self exploitation.
So having and ensuring a profitable system helps to stay sustainable.
But that means as well not dodging taxes and externalizing costs (like by self exploitation)
And yes, I am in the middle of founding a social business with others, and no minimum wage does not cut it, for none of the people involved. (some donate their time, as they are financially secure)
@levampyre
You cannot assume that everything can run as a voluntary thing.
Some things do require full time people to work on. Certain requirements must have them working at business ours or SLA must be met. And some people certainly lack the skillset to have a high paying job that allows them to do it on the side, while they are a good fit for this kind of work.
So if you want to be sustainable you must be able to pay them a decent living wage for their work.
That is how reality works
@levampyre
I can pick my fights. Either change the system or do the social stuff with financial backing.
I consider the change the system to not be possible in the next few years, so I work on another part.
It is like doing cypherpunk and good crypto or do politics,.
I realized I am better in tech than politics, hence I work in that field.
Nothing wrong with trying to achieve your goals, but you must set priorities. So no offense if they are this or that way.
@levampyre
Yes I totally understand. But CCC is in the tech realm, which can be happy in the wage sector. This luxury is not universal.
My family is in the nursing/health area. There is a need that needs addressing, in social areas as well.
And you cannot expect everyone to be able to donate their time w/o compensation.
So you need to make sure your endeavor is funded and not run on sole self-exploitation.
That means yes, I need to able to hire folks if we do need to ensure SLA
@levampyre
and yes, I must ensure if things fuckup that I continue operation.
Aka that if noone volunteers their time and donates them, the SLAs can still be met for the foreseeable future until a decent deconstruction is possible.
And yes, that means having reserves, and having staff. And there is not one solution fits all.
And tbh if I take a look back at the pandemic, and how covid tracing worked and how much support we got from the community in the open source solutions, I get reaffirmed
@levampyre
The thing is, you must ensure that you can build up reserves. And this pretty much is a for profit logic.
There are plenty of tools to optimize this way, and to ensure that you make a profit.
If you do not optimize for max profit. The not for profit sector lacks those.
I consider congress a toy/fun/recreational event.
There is no harm done if it is not happening. While if you agree to take responsibilty for a kid, you cannot just "drop the ball" for a year. Or be unresponsive.
@levampyre
Hence I think the comparision of for profit social business vs a lot of highly paid folks come together and pay and have a party together in a rented location and which they do whatever they like quite unfair.
Not everything can be run this way.
@Chancerubbage
I know of two Hacker/Makerspaces w/o corps that have SEMs. (One got theirs donated, the others bought an old one and made it run again, for <1500 Euro iirc)
I do agree tho, that there is need for multiple levels of stuff and spaces.
That’s mildly more virtual than I was even considering. I was thinking 3d printers and scanners, cnc machines, soldiering stations, laser vinyl and paper cutters. But a graphics card and a nice Wacom tablet can definitely count. I’ve taken computer classes just for access to printers and ‘color’ workstations, bringing in files on zip discs, or lower capacity floppies
@Chancerubbage: that'd be even better! Our Multimedia Resources Center has a 3D printer, but there are written instructions to bring an assistant before doing anything. If I'd need anything like that, I'll ask professors on campus if I can use their labs.
Professors seem to be reluctant to give you the lab unless you have a very good reason to use it, though.
@VisualPlugin I’m simply afraid such maker spaces, co-ops, clubs, could barely make enough to cover rent, even with dues, much less keep and maintain equipment to share that none could afford on their own, yet could be shared by many. Even with business models like services and lessons.
If any successfully thrive, I’d like to know about it. Community colleges can sometimes be good resources.
@lrvick: I live in Southern California, but I'd come to the Bay Area in early September. I have an idea for a libre carpool service which connects peers to manage their own payment without my intervention.
Let me know what we can work out!
@DO1HMN @Kurt @lrvick the one I have seen where this happened was about a large advertising network owned by Microsoft. The authors had a lot of criticism but put their code to analyse it on GitHub, which is owned by Microsoft.
Someone from the audience then criticized them for now contributing to the problem by hosting their code at GitHub and sending people to a Microsoft controlled platform.
https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11974-die_akte_xandr_ein_tiefer_blick_in_den_abgrund_der_datenindustrie
Dieses Jahr konnten wir erstmals im Detail nachvollziehen, wie invasiv und kleinteilig uns Werbefirmen und Datenhändler im Netz kategoris...
@Kurt Yes! How the fuck did we all collectively decide centralizing most source code sharing and collaboration on a Microsoft product was a good idea.
I never see anything but Github in the US, but at CCC self hosted git is everywhere. I love it.
Marlin
Lance R. Vick
Chancerubbage
levampyre
jstsmthrgk
gabert
…might work for coffee…
Jelle Haandrikman 🇪🇺🇺🇦🇵🇸
Sebastian "spaetz" Spaeth
VisualPlugin
publictorsten
David Glover-Aoki
Shane Engelman
Kurt
Dietmar
Sparr
datenwolf
jomo
RyanSquared
mirabilos
alarig
Nik | Klampfradler 🎸🚲