GaryTheGammaridDec 23, 2023
nixCraft šŸ§

"240 million PCs could end up in landfills when Windows 10 support ends"

Sure.

Or they could be repurposed with #Linux or Chrome OS Flex, or #FreeBSD, and we can stop being so freaking dramatic.

If you just browse, watch Netflix, shop, net banking, etc, Linux distributions like Mint or Ubuntu could save you money. It is an environment-friendly option.

Dec 22, 2023 at 8:32pmWeb
Show threadRobert LinkDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft Planned obsolescence at its finest. #linux
Show threadAlan HicksDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft Such a waste when there are many better alternatives
Show threadzddDec 23, 2023
@AlanHicksLondon @nixCraft true
Show threadJoseph LamoreeDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft What if you need an OS that supports the latest ransomware?
Show threadnixCraft šŸ§Dec 22, 2023
@jlamoree haha. I see what you did there
Show threadTertle950Dec 22, 2023
@jlamoree @nixCraft WINE and open ports
Show threadJane DoeDec 22, 2023
@jlamoree @nixCraft Wine is making great strides towards in ransomware compatibility.
Show threadBee O'Problem Dec 23, 2023

@jlamoree @nixCraft ehhh, you can still do a decent amount of damage just restricted to userland.

Like "hey, we just encrypted everything under ~, hope nothing you care about is there... there is? give us buttcoinz"

Linux is not immune to trojans since the vulnerable part is in meatspace not cyberspace.

Show threadmanchicken moved!Dec 22, 2023
@nixCraft can you imagine the server farm you could build with that hardware? That said, we could also recycle the equipment. There are a lot of conflict minerals in these electronics.
Show threadTristan Nitotāœ“Dec 23, 2023
@manchicken @nixCraft electronics donā€™t recycle properly. I mean, the steel, the aluminum are ok, but microchips juste donā€™t. So reuse is vastly superior to recycling.
Show threadAndreas KDec 23, 2023

@nitot @manchicken @nixCraft Is it?

The Zenbook of my wife that is not even 5 years old, a proud i7 of its time, can quite nicely compete with modern Chromebooks. The discrete GPU in it, is only slightly slower than my Zen2 generation AMD iGPU.

Yet it slurps about as much electricity for this (back then "creator laptop level performance") than the new Zenbook (roughly 5x the CPU and >10x GPU) my wife will be setting up tomorrow evening.

Show threadAndreas KDec 23, 2023

@nitot @manchicken @nixCraft
Yes you can argue that the energy costs of the production is what dominates the lifetime costs, and thus a Chromebook that runs under 5W total will still be worse for the environment, but these 240m PCs are still energy hogs for potentially very little performance.

I just consider jailbreaking our old PS3/PS4s, as Linux boxes, but then you suddenly realize that these would make very loud, electricity guzzling Raspi (at least the PS3) competitors, more or less.

Show threadRobDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft Not Reuters as well...seems like all journalists at the moment are filling pages with rubbish, that is not based in reality
Show threadnixCraft šŸ§Dec 22, 2023
@robchapman maybe it is just AI writing stories for everyone.
Show threadRobDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft very possibly
Show threadMatti_VuoriDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft Actually, I have heard that Linux can do even more than the things mentioned
Show threadeestileib (she/hers)Dec 22, 2023

@Matti_Vuori @nixCraft

My toolchain for hobby work is entirely made up of things that would work better on Linux.

Show threadtheM0ntarCann0nDec 22, 2023
@eestileib @Matti_Vuori @nixCraft just like me, ya got a follow just for it.
Show threadSomeGadgetGuyDec 22, 2023

@nixCraft These headlines drive me CRAZY! Chances are, in "developed" areas of the world, people have more compute power in their phones than they need, let alone a proper PC. Yet we sell people on owning MULTIPLE discrete computers.

Spot on. A system sold with Windows 10, not upgraded to Windows 11, should have NO issues running a Linux or Chrome build and last for YEARS to come.

Show threadAngry CentristDec 22, 2023
@SomeGadgetGuy @nixCraft This is also true of Intel-based Macs. When Apple stopped offering updates for my ancient Mac Mini, I installed Linux on it and continued using it as my desktop for years. I only recently rescued a 4-year-old small-form-factor PC to seriously increase my desktop performance. For $90. (I went straight to the same Ubuntu LTS based distro I'd been running on the Mini, didn't bother with Win10)
Show threadSomeGadgetGuyDec 22, 2023
@dkbgeek @nixCraft That's the way to do it!
I've been having so much fun with these inexpensive mini-PCs, and it shows how little power people REALLY need for what they do on a home computer these days.
We're supposed to get excited about yearly iteration, but an 8th gen core i5 is still a SOLID piece of hardware.
Show threadAngry CentristDec 22, 2023

@SomeGadgetGuy @nixCraft Are there people who get new computers every year because "Oooh, shiny new!" like the iPeople are with new iPhones?

I actually DREAD migrating to a new machine and getting everything "just so" again. My 4ish-yr-old work laptop is going to be replaced because policy is to replace w/ new instead of just replacing the battery that's turning into a spicy pillow. THAT migration will be FUN (an acronym, y'know.)

Show threadSomeGadgetGuyDec 22, 2023
@dkbgeek @nixCraft I mean yes, but not very many. More, I feel there are a LOT more people who flip a PC in 2-3 years, when really that system would have been fine going longer.
Show threadAngry CentristDec 22, 2023
@SomeGadgetGuy @nixCraft I wonder how much of that is driven by the false economy of buying whatever's on sale at <insert major retailer> when they do buy new machines. When I buy a machine (or back in the day when I built them) I tend to shoot for one step down from the top-tier processor, so less premium for latest-greatest but something that's going to be viable for years, with plenty of RAM and fast storage. That usually lasted me 5+ yrs, which lately is stretching closer to 10.
Show threadSomeGadgetGuyDec 23, 2023
@dkbgeek @nixCraft oh I definitely think you're on to something there. Buy a cheap machine, in two years it starts to slow down. Then save up and buy a Mac. Complain that "PC worse than Mac". I know family who danced that dance.
It's like pulling teeth to get someone to look above a base model.
Takes even more effort to get people to perform the simplest of maintenance either. Why? Just buy a new one!
Show threadzddDec 23, 2023
@SomeGadgetGuy @dkbgeek @nixCraft true
Show threadBot4SaleDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft A lot will end up on reseller sites...ebay, amazon, rebushed IT stores, etc
Show threadš•Šš•™š•’š••š• š•Ø Dec 22, 2023
@nixCraft #Linux saved an old 2009 PC (now runs Debian) from being trashed in July 2021 when I switched. The amount of e-waste that Windows 11 will cause will be astronomical while Microsoft hypocritically flexes how green they are. Linux is lighter, more eco-friendly, private, secure, customizable & you own your OS.
Show threadā€¹ Lucas /ā€ŗDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft yep. Installed Mint on my mom's old laptop that ran Windows 8 and she has been happy for months. It works, runs smoothly and she can do all her stuff (basically using the browser).
Show threadWorikDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft or even better they could be designed with end of life disposal in mind
Show threadPenguinDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft @kevinctofel Windows users wonā€™t be switching to Linux, they expect easy use of all their software not hours of fiddling with open source alternatives. While others can use old PCā€™s with Linux, there arenā€™t 240 million of them šŸ™
Show threadMichael StephensonDec 22, 2023
@PenguinToot @nixCraft @kevinctofel that's more likely the truth. Most times I've tried getting Linux (usually Ubuntu/Mint) running smoothly on my hardware, it took lots of fiddling because the guides were outdated and the commands broke everything, requiring a complete reinstall. It was usually possible in the end, but I know that most users simply don't want to do that. They will continue to use their out of date OS and be happy that they don't have to restart for updates any more...
Show threadKeaganDec 22, 2023

@PenguinToot @nixCraft @kevinctofel Speaking from personal experience having just moved to Linux about 2 months ago. I havenā€™t had any issues with fiddling with alternative software for hours or trying to get it working.

#zorinos is a really nice looking distro. It runs well and has a program (basically wine) that allows you to run Windows programs on Linux. Iā€™ve got it running on my fiancĆ©es laptop and it works brilliantly.

https://zorin.com/os/download/

Download - Zorin OS

Download the alternative to Windows and macOS designed to make your computer faster, more powerful, secure, and privacy-respecting.

Zorin
Show threadJakob Thobƶll - R.I.P. NatenomDec 23, 2023
@PenguinToot
Fortunatly, the time of fissling arrouns for hours is gone by now at least for the 'standard users' needs. Although Windumb enthusiasts still tell this fairytale to scare of people who think about changing. For light office applications, Web browsing and Mails, Ubuntu Bades distros are usable out of the box. Even the Installation can be done without any deeper knowledge.
@nixCraft @kevinctofel
Show threadDanuDec 23, 2023
@jakob_thoboell @PenguinToot @nixCraft @kevinctofel unless you need a specific driver or something. Or your audio software isnt working or you want to play a game. No fairytales needed, real world examples from people I know or me, in 2023. many people have luck, others, well if your specific hardware is not instant supported, good luck if you never used a terminal, are not experienced in heavy googling technical problems, adapting old fixes
Show threadGustavoDec 23, 2023
@PenguinToot @nixCraft @kevinctofel That's not the issue for the majority of people: many people only use a browser or apps that can run on one (like office suites), yet a lot of them simply cannot use anything slightly different from what they are used to. If I lend my phone or computer to someone in many cases they get completely lost because I don't use Chrome but Firefox.
Show threadBee O'Problem Dec 23, 2023

@PenguinToot @nixCraft @kevinctofel

Assuming a working install... If the user can get away with never having to install anything and updates never fail then it's likely possible to use Linux without ever hitting any technical barriers.

IOW: If the user *only* uses the web and is comfortable with Firefox then they might be just fine with Linux.

This is conjecture though.

Show threadbananabob  šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡¦ šŸ‡µšŸ‡øDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft Just send those laptops my way and I will install #LinuxMint and give them to houses that need them
Show threadJocelynAyodeleDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft The issue is normies don't know about Linux and ChromeOS is something you get on a Chromebook.
Show threadChris (Master of Potate) šŸ„”Dec 22, 2023
@nixCraft by now you can even game pretty well on Linux thanks to Proton.
Show threadRolingMetalDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft I'll expect them to lengthen their support :) Or else I'll just install linux. Chrome O.S. that's not going to happen, because I like Google even less then Microsoft :)
Show threadTrauergasDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft my PC is just now at the point where win7 starts to annoy me more as there seem to be some needed updates on some software - so I guess I'll be fine with win10 for a while. And after that it is way beyond it's lifetime (parts bought 2013) so going to the landfill would be okay if that point is reached.
Show threadBeeksDec 22, 2023
@nixCraft or they could just upgrade to win11 for free as well last I checked. What an absolute BS headline.
Show threadBee O'Problem Dec 23, 2023
@Beeks @nixCraft Win11 has hardware restrictions that can prevent it from installing on oldish but still relatively recent hardware. A non-technical user isn't going to know how to work around those restrictions.
Show threadFuchsiii~~~Dec 22, 2023
@nixCraft statistics say they will go tho the landfill in the US. Repurposing them with Linux is just wishful thinking on our part.
Show threadKevin Karhan Dec 23, 2023

@fuchsiii @nixCraft and this why we have #ClimateChange:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQbiIVUkw&t=689s

Because #GAFAMs like #Microsoft decide crap like #CensorBoot is so important they'd have to go out of their way to generate so many metric tons of 100% avoidable #eWaste, it makes replacing all household & office electrical outlets in the #EU with #IEC60806_1 sockets look like an envoirmentally friendly decisionā€¦
Spoiler: They canned it due to generating equal amounts of #eWaste (700.000t)!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1#Possibility_of_acceptance_in_European_Union

The Ā£299 Aldi Espresso Machine - How Bad Could It Be?

YouTube
Show threadKevin Karhan Dec 23, 2023

@fuchsiii @nixCraft

Not to mention that #CensorBoot aka. "#SecureBoot" is insecure by #Microsoft's own admission, so all it achieves is #PowerAbuse by putting in another extra step to make #Linux work that has nothing to do with #Security and entirely with pissing off users.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VwtOrwceo&t=739s

Guarding Against Physical Attacks: The Xbox One Story ā€” Tony Chen, Microsoft

YouTube
Show threadKevin Karhan Dec 23, 2023

@fuchsiii @nixCraft

Also #Microsoft is criminally incompetent in handling their #CensorBoot #Keys, so #GoldenKeyBoot killed that whole security as unpatchably broken!

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-secure-boot-golden-key,32450.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/4wybax/writeup_of_secure_boot_bypass_which_i_dub_secure/
https://www.extremetech.com/internet/233400-microsoft-leaks-secure-boot-credentials-demonstrates-why-backdoor-golden-keys-cant-work
https://www.xda-developers.com/microsofts-debug-mode-flaw-and-golden-key-leak-allows-disabling-of-secure-boot/
https://gist.github.com/acepace/df34b5213f1e0fae6529eb703d947187
https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequence/uefi/secure-boot

'Secure Boot'-Enabled Windows Devices May Be Permanently Vulnerable Due To 'Golden Key' Backdoor, Say Researchers (Updated)

Secure Boot vulnerabilities allow anyone to unlock Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10 devices, or to install bootkits and rootkits on them. Microsoft has yet to address the issue publicly.

Tom's Hardware
Show threadlunchyDec 23, 2023
@kkarhan @fuchsiii @nixCraft what exactly is broken? surely the literal root signing keys didn't get leaked did they?
Show threadFuchsiii~~~Dec 23, 2023
@lunch @kkarhan @nixCraft 2016 M$ accidentally leaked their ā€œgolden keysā€ to secure boot, which can be used to unlock windows installations and retrieve debug information about the boot process. The much worse incident happened this year when MSI lost the secure boot private keys from Intel that are used to sign OEM machines. That key allows code execution before boot.
Show threadKevin Karhan Dec 23, 2023

@fuchsiii @lunch @nixCraft

Also the problem is that this is not only an arbitrary decision but also that people will just suck up that shit by Microsoft whilst also refusing to even consider alternatives.

Not to mention #CensorBoot is still bad per concept!
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/111628362489473904

Kevin Karhan :verified: (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] Not to mention that #CensorBoot aka. "#SecureBoot" is insecure by #Microsoft's own admission, so all it achieves is #PowerAbuse by putting in another extra step to make #Linux work that has nothing to do with #Security and entirely with pissing off users. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VwtOrwceo&t=739s

Mastodon šŸ˜
Show threadFuchsiii~~~Dec 23, 2023
@lunch @kkarhan @nixCraft but even with all of this secure boot is still a vast improvement to BIOS which offers absolutely no Bootkit protection what so ever.
Show threadKevin Karhan Dec 24, 2023

@fuchsiii @lunch @nixCraft depends...

#BIOSes even ib the 90s were able to check the #bootsector and warn of tampering.

Tho nowadays #Boodloaders do obsolete that...


Personally I think not forcing people to learn #CodeSigning and using #PGP was a fundamental mistake in #Computing!