Mastodawn

I’m happy to see Threads starting to federate with Mastodon and other ActivityPub networks!

Open standards are good, and honestly, I have a *ton* of friends already on Instagram and Threads that would never join *yet another social network*, but I’d still love to keep up with them and their lives without having to use Threads. Federating via ActivityPub enables exactly that.

#Threads #Mastodon #ActivityPub #federation #Fediverse

IMHO defederating from Threads is like an upstart email service blocking their users from being able to email Gmail users because they don’t like Google. That might seem fine on principle, but in reality it just siloes people from their friends—and makes joining the other service more attractive. 🤷‍♂️

If we want people to use and discover the goodness of Mastodon, we should federate, *and then* let ’em know how much nicer it is over on this side—all while being happy we can interact w/our friends.

To be clear, *I don’t like Facebook as a company* and I avoid touching anything related to them as much as is practical. At the same time, if I’m able to use *my preferred social network* plus *open standards* to talk to my friends who are exclusively on Facebook-owned platforms, then I’ll take it.

Because my alternatives are:

• Convince all of my real-world friends to uproot their entire social graph for my personal benefit (not going to happen, as we’ve seen time and time again)

• Just create an account on the Facebook-owned platform to keep in touch with them (no thank you, you see how that’s worse, right?)

• Decide to lose contact with real-world friends over social media platforms (dumb)

And *you* as an individual can block Threads all *you* want, and I won’t fault you for making that decision for yourself! That’s a neat thing about the ownership over our own experiences we have on the Fediverse and Mastodon.

But calling for *the entire open web* to cut them off just doesn’t sit well with me. 🤷‍♂️ Hopefully over time, I can convince more of my friends over on Instagram and Threads to come over here to non-Meta-owned platforms—but it’s hard to do that if I can’t even talk to them.

So when I hear, “Defederate from Threads! Don’t let them into the Fediverse! Anyone who federates with them is evil!” I hear, “Fuck you, your family, and your friends; you’re not welcome here, and our crusade is more important than both open standards and your personal relationships.”

Block Threads all you want but chill tf down demanding other people do.

I’m tired of it. Anyway, I’m done with the Threads meta (heh) for now, and will try to keep future discourse limited to this thread (heh).

Domenico Lamberti Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy if i get to interact with my friends on threads who don't want to go through the hazzle of doing masto, I'm fine with that.

the absolutism and almost nationalism to this platform is intense sometimes.

Durrandon Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy Some folks have appointed themselves to be the high priests of Mastodon, and I'll have none of it. The good news is they are a vocal minority.

devolute Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy Don't I just join a non-Threads federating Mastodon server if I fancy it, or is the real joy preaching to everyone else?

Ben Grue Dec 15, 2023

@cassidy
Threads meta!

Ho ho ho

Jared White (ResistanceNet ✊)Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy Completely agree. I love the instance I'm on and Threads is not blocked, but if it were just based on a vibe, I would seriously consider the thought of migrating instances. Everyone's welcome to individually block whatever they like, but I don’t think blanket blocking one of the largest text-based social networks that's not X is a smart move.

@jaredwhite maybe a hot take but honestly if X/Twitter federated, I’m not sure I’d want to blanket defederate them, either. Maybe mute the instance by default so folks only see what they explicitly opt into, and instance-block well-known bad actors, but the entire site? Idk. Because ultimately, enabling people to connect across networks using open standards still feels like a net good IMHO. 🤷‍♂️

@jaredwhite I *do* hope Mastodon ramps up moderation and safety features with the coming massive influx of users—but that’s necessary *anyway,* regardless of what company starts federating.

Jared White (ResistanceNet ✊)Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy yeeaahh, that might have to be more selective. FWIW, there are already opt-in services like bird.markup which are pseudo-federating X/Tw content over…

Garrett LeSage Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy And even if *we* don't specifically connect to Threads, people we know who aren't here (yet) might be more likely to join Mastodon if *they* can connect with others on Threads. 🤔

@garrett yepppp

Brodie Robertson Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy A lot of people don't want that, they want it to be this niche little community but then simultaneously get annoyed when nobody cares to join it

@BrodieOnLinux they can have their niche little community by just… not following people on Threads, then??

Entire instances preëmptively defederating makes no sense to me.

Brodie Robertson Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy It's weird for sure, I'm excited for Threads making all this mainstream myself

verified_dragon

@BrodieOnLinux @cassidy I loved the fediverse at first sight when I came to lemmy(after the snoopocalypse)

I would love mainstream adoption!

Brodie Robertson Dec 14, 2023

@sounddrill @cassidy Change is scary, I can see why people are worried but at the end of the day you have a lot more control over the content you'll see then you would ever have on Twitter or Threads

eyrea 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2023

@BrodieOnLinux @cassidy I do look forward to being able to do socials with family members without actually joining Facebook or Instagram

vimproved Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy
In theory I agree with you completely, but I know a lot of people on fedi (especially in the corners that tend towards marginalized groups like PoC and trans people) are mostly worried about harassment and lack of moderation. I think that ultimately, many servers will (and have already) defederated, but the ones who don't will be able to determine if it's worth federating or not. Different instance admins have different bandwidth for the level of bullshit they can wade through.

@vimproved I mean, any instance can be blocked by any user or limited by any admin. Straight up (preëmptively!) defederating entirely seems incredibly shortsighted and user hostile, to me. Mastodon also has much more comprehensive tools around reach, meaning if you don’t want your posts or interactions to be public, they don’t have to be. But I don’t see how defederating from Threads itself just “solves” harassment and moderation in any meaningful way.

apophis Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy @vimproved threads? you mean the activitypub project by the genocide eating disorder creepy stalker network?

apophis Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy @vimproved related https://toot.cafe/@chartier/111576973540441473

David Chartier (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image #Meta #Threads #Mastodon #JoyOfTech

Toot Café

Metal.Smurf Dec 14, 2023

Not dead against it, but I suspect the fear might be the other way around, big entity comes in and throws its weight around, to the detriment of all others, ultimately poisoning the ecosystem in the long term.

Since you mention Gmail, look what's happened to the so called federated email ecosystem. It's practically a duopoly at this point and getting off a Google/MS blacklist can be a nightmare for other mail hosters. The big guys call the shots, same as it ever was.

@LiNuXsys666 I’ve used a smaller email service for years and never had a problem—while I wouldn’t personally want to run a mail server, there are far, far more players than just Gmail and Outlook. 🤷‍♂️

Metal.Smurf Dec 14, 2023

That is certainly good news! I do too and it's been ok for me personally. But I've also seen first hand the poor experience for smaller providers and end-users when the big providers arbitrarily block them. The users often just give up and move to the big providers, entrenching them further and degrading the overall ecosystem.

Does that warrant a pre-emptive strike? Hmm I don't know. But I've seen this movie a few times and for some reason the ending never changes.

𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬 Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy I just don't want Meta to cash in on free and open content.

Mastodon Migration Dec 14, 2023

Only problem with your suggestion is, at least for now, you can hear them, but they can't hear you. So they will never get your messages about how great Mastodon is.

Amy 🇹🇭🏳️‍⚧️Dec 14, 2023

@mastodonmigration @cassidy I don't like threads but that's mainly because it's in testing phase

@AmyIsCoolz @mastodonmigration yeah, this. It’s a slow roll-out, that’s fine IMHO.

datenwolf Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy Personally my most significant worry about Threads federating is the threat of ActivityPub falling victim to Embrace-Extend-Extinguish.

In a way, this already happened to the Web, as far as browsers are concerned. The core W3C standards have become so convoluted, that it's become a herculean undertaking to implement a compliant parser+DOM+layout engine.

seqastian Dec 14, 2023

@datenwolf @cassidy as much as I share the suspicion about large players I think Meta has lost the ability to be hostile in a social media context. Their best chance not get regulated to death is to be as open as possible. Everywhere else they can be as evil as they want.

Tron Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy Fair point. However, it doesn't address the concern of feeding even more data to big tech companies. Individuals who are 'lazy' or 'can't be bothered' won't claim a top spot in my priority list, as I am clearly not their priority either. It appears that many have overlooked the lessons taught by Twitter / X and other platforms. Joining any other (or multiple) Mastodon instance(s) is in no way a complicated or elitist process. I simply don't have time for people who don't have time.

Tron Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy This might sound a bit petty, but it's based on years of online communication experience off the beaten path. I've consistently found myself drawn to smaller 'silos' with fewer, yet like-minded individuals. That has always been where I tend to join. kurzgesagt recently released a video called "The Internet is Worse Than Ever – Now What?" which resonated with me, because it also suggested smaller online communities similar to villages.

@cassidy the beauty of it is that instances mirror their user’s choices.

instances that block threads have users that don’t want to interact with threads content.
calling it shortsighted and user hostile implies that instances are going against their users’ desires, which may be true for your instance, but it’s not universal.

that’s THE point of federation: choice.

rodlux Dec 14, 2023

@cassidy totally agree! We should be open, and not preclude others. Being open may also boost tie amount of content on Mastodon.

Sheldon Dec 15, 2023

@cassidy they’ll be exposed to other social media variations and maybe they’ll find one that suits them perfectly.

I gave migrating to Pixelfed some thought a while ago because I’m a photographer. Ultimately, I decided I wanted to not make Fediverse existence photography centric.

I do have a photography centered community on Instagram though and maybe someday that Federates and I move to Pixelfed and don’t have to get bombarded by stupid reels ever again.

hansup Dec 15, 2023

@cassidy meta never was about ‘friends’ or being nice. They proved it a million times.
Google is already blocking my email in gmail because they want me to join gmail. Meta will do the same here. That and injecting the timelines with ads.
No thanks. 100% blocking them.

@cassidy https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)

How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse) par Ploum - Lionel Dricot.

David Manning Dec 15, 2023

@cassidy The thing is we have 20 years of hindsight now showing us that Gmail basically eats most other email providers.