Alice McFlurry 
Normalize saying "I don’t know enough about the topic to be able to comment."
Dec 4, 2023 at 1:47pmWeb
Show threadUrzlDec 4, 2023

@Alice What timing!

We're trying to implement more Agile processes at work and just finished the training module that emphasized how much we need everybody to participate in the estimation process no matter how little you know about it.

"Okay, since I know nothing at all about the problem domain I'm going to estimate it takes me 2 weeks just to study it and a month to implement anything at all. No, I don't believe that's accurate but I don't have any relevant info."

Show threadkolyaDec 4, 2023
@gooba42 @Alice The error margin is supposed to statistically even out over lots of tickets. Which would work if the estimation errors were randomly distributed, but they never are, because software engineers are incurable optimists. So your best bet is to take the median and double it. That's usually a solid estimate of the actual costs.
Show threadthe_blackwell_ninja [EST]Dec 4, 2023

@kolya @gooba42 @Alice

I practice the Montgomery method. Under-promise and over-deliver. My estimates are conservative, and most of the time I get it done, and then some. If there's an unforseen issue, I still get it done, I just don't have enough time to go above and beyond.

Show threadMennoMar 15, 2024
@kolya @gooba42 @Alice
Dude, I'm an engineer by training. You need at least a factor of Pi.
Show threadkolyaMar 15, 2024
@MennoWolff
Like I said, incurable optimists.
@gooba42 @Alice
Show threadObsoleteDec 4, 2023
@gooba42 @Alice
I’m available as a consultant for hire. I have years of experience in not knowing stuff.
Show threadsoaprootDec 4, 2023
@gooba42 @Alice The purpose of agile estimation (well the way I've generally used it) is not so much to produce estimates as to identify what the team knows and doesn't know, what the risk factors are, and whether there is a shared understanding of what needs to be done. For example, if different people produce different estimates that might be an indication that there is need for more knowledge sharing or making a ticket for study or something.
Show threadStella C πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦Dec 4, 2023
@Alice I like - I have the power to hold no opinion
Show threadJW prince of CPHDec 4, 2023
@Alice Also, normalize thinking it and then not commenting when not asked.
Show threadBohorDec 4, 2023
@Alice I'm sorry, I can't. This is the Internet.
Show threadLegally ZoΓ©Dec 4, 2023

@Alice Normalize not replying when you don't have anything of value to add.

Oh.

Show threadRora BorealisDec 4, 2023

@hotkey @Alice I run through this process for the not-silly conversations: Does Y need to be said? By me? In this context?

It makes me think about the bigger picture a bit. I don't make an ass of myself nearly as often as I would if I posted even a quarter of the posts I start writing. Most of my drafts never see the light of day.

Show threadLegally ZoΓ©Dec 4, 2023

@rora_borealis I'm just back from writing and erasing and rewriting and re-erasing a reply to another thread. Finally coming to the conclusion that nothing good will come from this reply if I send it. So I didn't.

@Alice

Show threadgeoff martinDec 4, 2023

@Alice

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/let-me-interrupt-your-expertise-with-my-confidence-jason-adam-katzenstein.jpg

Show threadNathan A. StineDec 4, 2023
@Alice this also works great when you're uninterested in the topic or are just introverted!
Show threadSimon Cox Dec 4, 2023
@Alice
I would but...
Show threadJargogglesDec 4, 2023
@Alice
I don't know comment enough to able to be topic.
Show threaddelic8darlingDec 4, 2023
@Alice and effectively not having say something syndrome
Show threadBored BabyDec 4, 2023
@Alice 1000%. I think this would solve most of the worst aspects of social media.
Show threadBritish Tech GuruDec 4, 2023
@Alice Ahh... But I'm an internet EXPERT. I have my Dubble PHD in Baloney earned at the Prestigious University of Social Media. I know everything about everything and can advise on everything. Hmm... Still got an F on Pythonin school though :p
Show threadnerdy_popculture_referenceDec 4, 2023
@Alice I've had people get angry with me for saying that. I think they see it as a kind of cop out or dismissiveness.
Show threadbeforewisdom Dec 4, 2023

@Alice

There is a stoic quote on the Internet that is popular. It is from one of the ancient Stoics.

Paraphrasing:

"You don't HAVE TO have an opinion on everything".

Show threadRaMar 13, 2024
@beforewisdom @Alice That's pithier and cuts to the issue more than my old fave "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractatus_Logico-Philosophicus
Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus - Wikipedia

Show threadTim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPEDec 4, 2023
@Alice You can't use it too often at work, or you get "so what are we paying you for then?"
Show threadMark SaltveitDec 4, 2023

@TimWardCam @Alice
The easy answer is "listening."

To be followed, after a pause, by "Somebody's got to do it."

Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseyDec 4, 2023
@Alice Actually, diamonds are the same as lanterns.
Show threadAndrew FeeneyDec 4, 2023
@Gustodon @Alice I may not be a doctor but I vehemently disagree with both of you.
Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseyDec 4, 2023

@andrewfeeney Actually, doctors were invented by Benjamin Franklin.

Okay, DISCOVERED.

Show threadAndrew FeeneyDec 4, 2023
@Gustodon Doctors are a myth. Have you ever SEEN a β€œdoctor” with your own eyes? Exactly. BOOM!
Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseyDec 4, 2023
@andrewfeeney It's a good thing we're around to help everyone with our knowledge.
Show threadAndrew FeeneyDec 4, 2023
@Gustodon On that we can agree.
Show threadNicky🦨✌️Dec 4, 2023
@Alice renormalize it.
Show threadMark SaltveitDec 4, 2023

@Alice
My variation is "I don't know enough about this to have an intelligent opinion." (I almost certainly have SOME kind of opinion.)

Either way, it's good to follow with "I'm curious what X thinks," where X is an intelligent and somewhat quiet person in the room.

Show threadMama's Pinky ToeDec 4, 2023
@Alice
Actually, . . .
Show threadMediaphotonsDec 4, 2023
@Alice i wish to comment about your comment, but I have nothing to add, nevertheless it’s your comment and I respect that.
Show threadVick Forcella β„’πŸŒˆπŸŒ³β„οΈβ˜‘οΈ:verifiDec 4, 2023
@Alice I don’t know enough about the topic to be able to comment.
Show threadKonfetti πŸŽ‰πŸ³Dec 4, 2023
@Alice
With an extra boost to all mensplainer.
Life would be much easier if people would be better in knowing about their shortcomings and flaws instead of permanently pretending they know everything best and cost my time to sort idiots from normal humans.
Show thread𝔅icyclet𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰Dec 4, 2023

@Alice Yes please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Show threadThe Other EconomistDec 4, 2023
@Alice but I am semi-all-knowing, like half infinite. Also, for $19.95 per month, I can send you my information on how to live forever. It comes with my free booklet on how not to lose money to fools. There is a full refund guarantee if you do die and fill out the documentation of how you faithfully followed the method daily prior to death. Just a brief form, it has never been needed.
Show threadElle πŸ’—Dec 4, 2023
@Alice Well this is awkward
Show threadAlice McFlurry Dec 4, 2023
@ellesaurus πŸ˜‚ There is a difference between offering help and giving unsolicited opinions.
Show threadsnaprailsDec 4, 2023
@Alice More economically expressed as "Buggered if I know" or #biik πŸ™‚
Show threadHeals Dec 4, 2023
@Alice but.. I don't know enough about the topic :(
Show threadSean Eric FaganDec 4, 2023
@Alice It's ok if you have to internalize it as "if I say something I am going to look really stupid/foolish."
Show threadBerndDec 4, 2023
@Alice I was surprised that I actually had to teach that to some tutors for my lectures (who would occasionally also hold the lectures). Some of them would just make shit up when they didn't know the answer.
Show threadcratermoonDec 4, 2023

@Alice

There's a great scene in the HBO Chernobyl series where Valery Legasov is challenged, "Please, tell me how an RBMK reactor core explodes."

Legasov replies, "I'm not prepared to explain it at this time."

In the moment, it pushes back on the "tell me right now", yet it implies that given time, he would have an explanation. Later we learn there's more implied in that answer than just not having it ready at hand.

Show threadNelsonDec 4, 2023
@Alice I often say "I admit ignorance" to stop myself from spewing unsupported wild speculation.
Show threadGeorge Liquor, AmericanDec 4, 2023

@Alice My colleagues used to get frustrated with me whenever I'd tell them something like this. So I made sure to point out future instances whenever someone *should* have practiced this advice.

Unqualified dipshits with strong opinions ruin virtually everything they touch.

Show threadGreg BrooksDec 4, 2023
@Alice I like to also go with "I haven't used <x> enough to have a valid opinion."
Show threadRobert W. GehlDec 4, 2023
@Alice Then who will the reporters interview?
Show threadDavid ZaslavskyDec 4, 2023
@Alice This started out as a very sensible request/command but I am loving the replies πŸ˜‚
Show threadYrmeek Jyls AyDec 4, 2023
@Alice Good luck with that =/
Show threadFlorian HaasDec 4, 2023
@Alice ... and its sibling, "I don't know enough about the topic to be able to meaningfully contribute to your meeting."
Show threadAntonDec 4, 2023
@xahteiwi @Alice -"meaningfully contribute" +attend
Show threadFlorian HaasDec 4, 2023

@antondollmaier What I meant is that that is the decline notice.

@Alice

Show threadAntonDec 4, 2023
@xahteiwi signed!
Show threadDiana Dec 4, 2023
@Alice As someone doing research, I agree with this sentiment on a deep level
Show threadRaglan Niall  Dec 4, 2023
@Alice yes.