Henrik Pihl
Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮It’s fucking nuts that service providers can just remove your purchases like this without refunds.
“One thing that we have learned is that piracy is not a pricing issue. It’s a service issue.” - Gabe Newell, Valve, 2011.
If your reply is blaming people for not reading the ToS: don’t be an ass. Companies make them difficult to parse for normal average people. When you purchase something, you expect it to be yours.
Oblomov@gamingonlinux that's true, but up to a point. The ephemeral nature of these services has been one of the key topics of discussion about DRM, piracy, and user rights for over a decade now. It's not like warnings about it have not been issued wherever this has been possible. Not everybody may have been reached by it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people have come across such warnings and simply disregarded them for being “extremist” or “paranoid”. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/743/
@gamingonlinux anybody insisting on the expectation that these services will be “eternal” is simply deluding themselves now.
Janne MorenIt's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.
At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.
Adam Blažek@jannem @gamingonlinux If you “lease” a car, you don’t get to keep it. If you “purchase” a car, you get to keep it. The streaming companies intentionally use the wrong word in order to mislead customers.
Alexander The 1st@gamingonlinux Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.
Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.
World Basement Classic@AT1ST @gamingonlinux And usually the content is only available from one supplier, so it's not like you can go find another offering better terms...
@diffrentcolours @gamingonlinux Right - I'm reminded of Last Week Tonight's episode on Corporate Consolidation regarding Delta Airlines the year they dragged the one passenger off the flight because of overbooking...and how that didn't affect their profit margins that quarter.
"That actually does explain their new slogan: 'You want to rollerblade to Houston?'"
@diffrentcolours @gamingonlinux It's just that every product has a company that turns their non-monpolistic options on their platform through their monopolistic storefront.
PC is sort of the exception, except if you want to play a lot of games...you're going to need to agree to at least one of Microsoft's Windows versions' TOS.
Vertana@gamingonlinux While this isn’t uniquely American, is this even legal in jurisdictions with better consumer rights like the EU and Australia? Or are they simply not doing this in those jurisdictions where it’s illegal or a gray area?
Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle@gamingonlinux also, we can't just avoid using anything with any terms we are not 100% happy with
emberquill 
@gamingonlinux and that's why Steam has been so wildly successful.
Vile Lasagna@gamingonlinux "If buying is not owning, then piracy can't be theft"
[zlendy@firefish ~]$ 
@zlendy @gamingonlinux can't remember where it was I originally saw it, but it stuck with me like only the articulation of a deeply held belief can. Almost a relief to hear it put into words that make sense
realspiffy@gamingonlinux to me it also seems to be a reminder that if you buy something you don’t own physically, you buy something you don’t own physically.
kb@gamingonlinux Even better - no piracy would happen if sharing files of that kind of media was legal.
vv221Quoting Gabe Newell to denounce access removal using DRM?
The irony would be hilarious if it was not so sad, Steam addicts really live in another world…
The irony would be hilarious if it was not so sad, Steam addicts really live in another world…
Kevin Karhan 
@gamingonlinux #GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...
After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!
Scott Michaud@gamingonlinux Ironically, this (retroactively removing copies from your paying customers) is closer to theft than copyright infringement is.
@scottmichaud @gamingonlinux To be fair, anyone who's looked at "wage violations" statistics knows it's only really theft when poor people do it
Ertain@gamingonlinux In this case, piracy may be a necessary evil for watching the lost content.
Edit: apparently, I struck a nerve with this toot.
Jordan 
@Ertain @gamingonlinux If purchasing isn’t owning, then piracy isn’t stealing.
FoolishOwl@jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux Part of what's terrible is that most digital storage media has a short lifespan, but copying it validates the copy, so the most reliable way to preserve digital data is to distribute it widely and keep copying it regularly.
We need piracy to preserve culture.
@@jordan_kendrick @foolishowl @Ertain @gamingonlinux That's definitely what we're seeing in retrogaming, the deep catalog of old computer games only survives today as a result of earlier piracy efforts.
SylvainNot trying to start an argument here, your comment just made me think of something I read earlier.
The British, who notoriously stole loads of culturally significant artefacts through conquests, refuse to return said stolen goods to their rightful owners on the basis of "preserving human culture".
Of course, piracy as "copying" is not like stealing the unique copy of something. But I thought the two close enough to be worth mentioning.
@axnxcamr @jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux That's an interesting point.
In this context, there is a history of artists getting burned. The corporations don't care about them any more than they care about anyone else. Probably most people pirating digital culture don't feel any personal responsibility to support artists, but some of us do, and we need to look for ways to do that and encourage others to take up that responsibility as well.
Gloopsies 
@foolishowl @axnxcamr @jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux
I'd argue it's quite the contrary. It's been proven many times that people don't pirate because they don't think the content deserves the money. They pirate because they get the better experience. It's not the problem of people not wanting to pay for the content they enjoy and don't want to support artists. They just want to get what they pay for, and if the experience is better for free they ain't paying
WearyBonnie@jordan_kendrick
This is a sublime sentence - would it be okay with you if I add it to my little collection of "phrases I'd like to cross stitch one day"?
I usually do that by adding a screenshot to a Pinterest board, but if you'd prefer not to be screenshot on Pinterest I could just use a private text note.
This is a sublime sentence - would it be okay with you if I add it to my little collection of "phrases I'd like to cross stitch one day"?
I usually do that by adding a screenshot to a Pinterest board, but if you'd prefer not to be screenshot on Pinterest I could just use a private text note.
@3TomatoesShort Go right ahead, that sounds like a cool idea.
@jordan_kendrick
Thanks! :)
Thanks! :)
veetee@3TomatoesShort in the spirit of the statement and this thread, I think you just can just take this phrase in order that it be preserved 
@jordan_kendrick
@jordan_kendrick
Dave C.@jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux Reminds me of all of those DVD commercials that ended in own it today. Then the DVD comes with a viewing license disclaimer. You never owned it.
Jean Helou ⌨️@jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux not sure about other countries, in France digital content piracy is not stealing, it's counterfeiting. That is only an offense if you actually share your copy with others, especially if you make money out of that sharing.
@jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux also you never bought the digital content if it has any form of DRM. You rented a limited license to access the content.
phanjam@jhelou @jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux
The phrase alarms many people in different ways, but the Robotcache games distribution platform actually sells you games drm-free, *and* allows you to resell them (on-platform) if you tire of them. They use (and here's that phrase) "block-chain" tech to track the ownership changes.
The phrase alarms many people in different ways, but the Robotcache games distribution platform actually sells you games drm-free, *and* allows you to resell them (on-platform) if you tire of them. They use (and here's that phrase) "block-chain" tech to track the ownership changes.
Sasha Akhavi
cultdev
Bot4Sale@jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux I feel like Piracy is the wrong term to use here. Piracy is taking something that you aren't entitled to, aka theft or stealing. If you take back something you legally own that was taken from you, then I see it more as repossessing what is legally yours.
@Bot4Sale @jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux
I don't think it is "legally" yours, but morally it for sure is
@gloopsies @jordan_kendrick @Ertain @gamingonlinux The whole point of "purchasing" something is to legally make it your property. If you rented or licensed then that's another story.
Skoobie@Ertain
Piracy is the only time tested solution to preservation of media. Fuck what capitalism tries to tell us.
@gamingonlinux
Piracy is the only time tested solution to preservation of media. Fuck what capitalism tries to tell us.
@gamingonlinux
@Ertain @gamingonlinux A necessary good.
Do NOT Fear|🇺🇸🇺🇦🐊🦉🌊💙@Ertain @gamingonlinux because you're correct. My policy has always been if something isn't affordable or convenient I have absolutely no qualms about acquiring it from sources
pak0st@gamingonlinux call it as it is - Sony didn't sell anything, they rented the content. Of course they didn't label it as such
phi1997@pak0st
They probably did, but did so buried deep in a terms of service that they know you'll agree to without reading because it's too long and you don't have much choice.
@gamingonlinux
They probably did, but did so buried deep in a terms of service that they know you'll agree to without reading because it's too long and you don't have much choice.
@gamingonlinux
GuyWithLag@phi1997 @pak0st @gamingonlinux does not matter, I fully expect the EU regulators to pounce on this an not let it go.
Neko | Cuter with Cat Ears@phi1997 Wasn't there a service (Snapchat IIRC) where the EULA would have taken the average reader a full week to read non stop
@CuterwithCatEars
I doubt it's just one
I doubt it's just one
gunstick@pak0st @gamingonlinux in the screenshot it clearly says "purchased", not rented.
PastorOnRuby@gamingonlinux and that is why sometimes I feel concern to get digital content.
Synapsid@pastorinni @gamingonlinux Same. Too easy to deny online content like this. It's better when files are stored offline, preferably in multiple storage devices.
Jeremy Bray@gamingonlinux This is why piracy always wins.
WanderingOwl@gamingonlinux feels like a potential class action lawsuit