deepakSep 23, 2023
Home Assistant

For over a decade Philips Hue offered lights that work without sharing your data to the cloud. This is changing soon and we need your help to make some noise to convince them to revert this decision.

https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/09/22/philips-hue-force-users-upload-data-to-cloud/

#homeassistant

[Update Oct 2: data sharing to become optional] Philips Hue will force users to upload their data to Hue cloud

To control your lights you soon need to create an account and share your data with the Hue cloud.

Home Assistant
Sep 22, 2023 at 1:57pmWeb
Show threadpinguinscholleSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant But that's for the Hue Bridge, right? I still can use the Hue bulbs with a ZigBee stick?
Show threadOlivierSep 22, 2023
@pinguinscholle @homeassistant hopefully, yes!
Show threadDer Mundschenk & Cie.Sep 22, 2023
@pinguinscholle @homeassistant Yes. They work quite well with #Zigbee2MQTT.
Show threadmuppethSep 22, 2023
@pinguinscholle @homeassistant I guess so. Good I did not go that route in my house and just have one hue bulb.
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant Seems like it's not an option if you refuse tracking… that seems like a #GDPR violation to me. :/
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Show threadHugo 雨果Sep 22, 2023
@lanodan @homeassistant Try contacting your local data protection authority?
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Sep 22, 2023
@whynothugo @homeassistant Sadly with the CNIL it pretty much just means a ticket that's left open ~forever.
Show threadHugo 雨果Sep 22, 2023
@lanodan At least they don't have a stale ticket bot that auto-closes it after two weeks...? Maybe enough tickets about the same complaint might eventually trigger attention.
Show threadIrfanSep 22, 2023
@lanodan @homeassistant @whynothugo That shouldn’t stop you from opening it!
Show threadAlex RosenbergSep 22, 2023
@lanodan @homeassistant All three browsers I tried gave me this nonsense. Amusingly, using Private Browsing in Safari worked.
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Sep 22, 2023
@alexr @homeassistant That's interesting given that mine is WebKitGTK in ephemeral mode.
Show threadpieceofthepie Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant I'm guessing that using your own zigbee hub or something like a Skyconnect stick means you avoid all this rubbish. It's not like the bulbs can dial home on their own right?
Show threadSparkySep 22, 2023
@pieceofthepie @homeassistant Assuming the bulbs will continue working with non-Hue hubs, yes.
But if they are willing to force a sign-in and upload all data to their cloud, then I wouldn't put it past them to go full enshittification and also add some "special sauce" to the way they communicate via Zigbee to either block it outright, operate with limited functionality only, or even start introducing weird errors that "mysteriously" don't happen with their own hub.
Show threadSparkySep 22, 2023
@pieceofthepie @homeassistant Granted, they cannot add that to existing bulbs without a firmware update, but future bulbs might ship pre-enshittified if they are willing to go that far.
Show threadDidierSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant I've started to disconnect my Hue-lamps from the Bridge and add them directly to another controller (sorry, not (yet) using HA)... Even if they revert the decision, they've lost my trust...
Show threadJohn GoerzenSep 22, 2023
@ON8SD @homeassistant Can you configure scenes, etc. without the app?
Show threadkoman Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant In fact, nowadays, my Adguard Home instance blocks a lot of telemetry connections to a Philip's servers from my Hue's bridge.
Show threadbeyondwattsSep 22, 2023
@koman @homeassistant which domains do you block? Could you share the rules?
Show threadkoman Sep 23, 2023

@beyondwatts @homeassistant

The blocked domains were:

diag.meethue.com (this one was constantly connecting to the server every minute)

ntp2.aliyun.com (you used to be able to disable time synchronization in the bridge's settings years ago, but now you can't)

ecdinterface.philips.com

mqtt.2030.ltsapis.goog

However, I mentioned "were" at the beginning because since July 27, my bridge hasn't been sending any data to the Internet. Maybe there's a new firmware. Who knows?

Show threadLiam 🏳️‍🌈Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant So glad we've already got great local-only migration options like Zigbee2MQTT (which I use) and ZHA- unfortunately seems inevitable that companies are going to continue to be pushed twords collecting more data from smart home devices.
Show threadJohn GoerzenSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant I'm pretty ticked about this. Even setting aside all the legit complaints about #privacy, there's a funcationality aspect: I live in a rural area. Do my lights stop working when my Internet does? (That's frequent.) Or do I lose the ability to configure them? I'm also confused; is the login requirement for the app or the bridge? (If the app, I assume HA integration with the bridge, at least, would continue working)

I sent support an email raising these questions.

Show threadJeremiah LeeSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant I picked Hue products specifically because they did not require an external cloud dependency. I do not want control of or data about my home in someone else’s cloud. I hope Hue changes course…

#LeafComputing

Show threadxs4me2Sep 22, 2023

@homeassistant

Why does my data and data on my home need to be in the cloud? There is no need for that! I want my privacy guaranteed!

Show threadJim Patterson 🇨🇦Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant @axisofeasy This might be an interesting item for your next blog post - #Philips will soon require that you share your info with them if you want to continue using their #SmartHome lightbulbs.
Show threadEelco Mulder  🇪🇺Sep 22, 2023

@homeassistant

And when trying to fill in their webform, I got this... oh boy!

(Seems my recent first purchase of a HUE product is also my last.)

#hue #homeassistant #philips #signify #surveillancecapitalism

Show threadEelco Mulder  🇪🇺Sep 22, 2023

@homeassistant

I called their 0080074454775 number, but all they could say was "security" and "I will pass it on on to my teammanager".

I doubt if they keep track of the complaints. If there was one thing I wish they did track....

#hue #homeassistant #philips #signify #surveillancecapitalism

Show threadrēd ⭐Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant ...with more and more ppl choosing on-premise, open-sourced solutions like #homeassistant , I'm afraid this will only get worse and more frequent as the mfrs look to regain leverage by forcing the #cloud connection - nothing new, for ex. : #WyzeCam s will only work when 'phoned-home' - even if you don't have a subs and/or have footage in a local SD. This is why we choose not to have ANY mfr integrations on our main devices/sensors and handle ALL via MQTT...
Show threadGrowlph IbexSep 22, 2023

@redwireless @homeassistant How can this kind of telemetry possibly even have any marketing value? I can't wrap my head around the idea of a marketplace where there are buyers for data about users' light bulb habits.

Am I being naive, or is this just data and control for it's own sake?

Show threadAnttiSep 22, 2023
@growlph @redwireless @homeassistant When a male over 40 years old starts switching on lights at night in the loo it is time to start marketing prostate medication and related health services.
Show threadrēd ⭐Sep 22, 2023
@anttijuu @growlph @homeassistant That's the answer!
Show threadexitcodeSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant this is bad news! I guess lets also go the their playstore and express our feelings there 
Show threadRui SeabraSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant

@jwildeboer ?

Show threadDarren PoulsonSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant After I installed PiHole and saw just how often the hue hub was calling back home, I quite quickly moved all my bulbs and switches to a local zigbee network and ditched the hub.

Everything worked as it did before, just no traffic out onto the internet.

Show threadBluedepthSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant @lisamelton Wow! Well, I’m glad to have learned this now. Time to grab a stout shovel and whack my weak interest in intelligent lightbulbs and bury the interest in a shallow grave and walk away! Another win for “wait and see” yay! ;)
Show threadAlex RosenbergSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant These douchebags have built their site to refuse access to their support page in Safari and FireFox. They blame it on my cookie preferences, which is not true.
Show threadChrist van WillegenSep 23, 2023
@alexr @homeassistant I wasn't asked for my preferences...
Show threadChrist van WillegenSep 23, 2023
@alexr @homeassistant I used the "feedback" button at the right side of the page to give them my feedback...
Show threadvandysSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant Obligatory observation: what a light needs to do is glow when current flows. What a switch needs to do is let current flow--or not. Wire carries the current.

There, fixed it for you. Probably saved you a ton of money and time, too. 😀
Show threadAmbrosiaSep 22, 2023
@vandys @homeassistant 🙄
Show thread Ibly 🏳️‍⚧️ Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant lord that’s frustrating, thankfully my phillips hue is bluetooth/zigbee only so hopefully that bulb doesn’t get impacted :/
Show threadWendy NatherSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant @paul_ipv6 Brb ripping out those stoopid bulbs
Show threadOsfast Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant I started switching every lightbulb over to zigbee. Directly controlled by #HA this afternoon. Gonna be a fun project recreate all scenes and automations.
Show threadbeyondwattsSep 22, 2023
@osfast @homeassistant what would I need to do this?
Show threadOsfast Sep 22, 2023
@beyondwatts @homeassistant a zigbee stick like the HA sky connect
Show threadVirginia HollowaySep 22, 2023
@homeassistant Wow, I feel really old and out date. My lights are controlled by a little piece of plastic that sticks out of the wall. When I push it up the light goes on. When I push it down the light goes off. #OldSchool.
Show threadKees N ✅🔻Sep 22, 2023
@VirginiaHolloway @homeassistant
> "I feel really old and out date."
You are not. You just chose the most robust, durable and sustainable solution.
Remote control is fine for severely disabled people.
Show threadPierre GabSep 24, 2023

@VirginiaHolloway @homeassistant I really like that I can set some lights to light at 20% at night hours, and with motion sensors, just walk in the kitchen. Really helps reduce strain on the eyes and calm down crying babies. Other options to dim lights by reducing power are wierd, some older ones produce sound and it doesn't feel safe 😅

Yeah, many features might seem like gadgets, but why refrain from using them, when companies aren't pulling dumb moves like now?

Show threadBen ZaninSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant this is the email I wrote last week, in case anyone wants to copy and paste.

https://mastodon.social/@gnomon/111077828698373488

Show threadrhempelSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant Wow - this is just the first step in the journey :-) Log in and we will look at how many devices you want to control. This gives us an idea of what the actual market looks like before we start charging you for the privilege of using our app to control devices you have bought and paid for.

I think the future of third party open source apps for getting around this stupidity never looked brighter!

Show threadMike JohnstonSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant
Maybe I'm ignorant but I can see two sides to this coin. The majority of their userbase are users who just want it to work. No one wants their account to get hacked and people start controlling their smart home devices. They could encourage MFA but most people are also dumb and so accounts that are locked out need helpdesk support to unlock accounts but social engineering (as we have recently seen with MGM hack) is a huge vulnerability. If their policy is well-intentioned, Philips may just want enough of a user profile built up on you to validate you are who you say you are. BUT you should be fully allowed to just use the hardware you paid for without an account/cloud. Especially at the Hue price point!! Hopefully they revert or someone makes a firmware flash that can fix this for HA enthusiasts 🙏
Show threadMoxxi ❄️ 🌲Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant amazing timing, I was going to buy 2 this weekend! I had been procrastinating for *cough-cough* a couple years *cough-cough* for that exact reason and now I'm glad I did!
Show threadDanny VSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant was under the impression this had already happened, had to login a while back
Show threadJ$Sep 22, 2023
@homeassistant enshittification strikes. Sad; I liked Hue until now.
Show threadRachelSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant the local access and relative openness of hue is what got me extended about that entire realm of tech. This is sad to see.
Show threadRachelSep 22, 2023

@homeassistant

Oh yeah they tried this shit a while back (2015/2016ish?) When they announced they were gonna not support third party bulbs on their hubs

Eventually they backtracked.

If you're running HomeAssistant, a regular ZigBee controller (USB stick, or Ethernet connected) works great with hue bulbs and many other devices purely locally

Show threadRachelSep 22, 2023
@[email protected]

Oh yeah they tried this shit a while back (2015/2016ish?) When they announced they were gonna not support third party bulbs on their hubs

Eventually they backtracked.

If you're running HomeAssistant, a regular ZigBee controller (USB stick, or Ethernet connected) works great with hue bulbs and many other devices purely locally
Show threadbarstewardSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant Aside from their form not loading if you decline cookies, they only want to hear from you after they’ve collected all your data:
Show threadAlexanderMarsSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant I’ll stick to the switch on the wall: worked great for the last 45 years, no privacy settings to worry about. Home automation, smart assistants and all this IOT rubbish is turning our homes into Peewee’s play house. Soon your smart couch will be reminding you to cut out the garlic powder because your farts stink too much, and everyone will scream because farts is the word of the day. Fuck, I hope I die before that’s reality.
Show threadDashdrumSep 22, 2023
@homeassistant I know not everyone can do this, but I've been moving my Hue lights off their hub to local hardware.