Greg Knauss

Since I’m new to JavaScript, I wrote:

πš’πš (πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš”) { πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš”(); }

…like an idiot. Then, I realized I should be adapting to JavaScript culture and make it inscrutable, so I re-wrote the line to:

πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš” && πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš”();

But I suspected there was something even more nightmarish, and sure enough, of course. This is how _real_ JavaScript developers do it:

πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš”?.();

And by β€œreal JavaScript developers,” I mean β€œmonsters”.

Sep 11, 2023 at 2:10pmIvory for iOS
Show threadGreg KnaussSep 11, 2023
My favorite thing about this conversation is that plenty of people have defended the optional chaining syntax, but nobody has objected to me calling JavaScript developers β€œmonsters.”
Show threadJason Parker (he/they)Sep 11, 2023
@gknauss I hear that for the next #monsterdon movie night, they'll be watching a documentary about JavaScript developers.
Show threadCactuar JoeSep 11, 2023
@north @gknauss Too horrifying, we try not to go for the really hard stuff.
Show threadKL ForslundSep 12, 2023

@gknauss i’m old to javascript, but I’d use the first example. Clearer. Trick programing makes trouble.

I’d also check if callback is a function before trying to use it.

But i studied Writing Solid Code when i was newish

Show threadGreg KnaussSep 12, 2023

I spent today making fun of syntax in JavaScript, and tonight writing nested list comprehensions in Python.

It’s not hypocrisy when I do it.

Show threadJoe Rosensteel πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆSep 12, 2023
@gknauss [hypocrisy(x) if x.get('user') is not 'Greg' else x for x]
Show threadFΓ‘bio Costa πŸ‡πŸ•πŸŽ©β˜•Sep 11, 2023

@gknauss

@francineemilia @leomeloxp
@leomeloxp

Show threadZalasur πŸΈπŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦Sep 11, 2023

@gknauss you gotta do the early return πŸ˜‰

if (!callback) {
return;
}

callback();

Show threadRobin NealSep 11, 2023

@gknauss as a js dev, i have worked with far too many teams who are obsessed with terse code, it's nightmarish.

That said, I _do_ like the conditional access/optional chaining operator, in both JS and C# 😳

Show threadJason Parker (he/they)Sep 11, 2023

@SudoCat @gknauss I would kill for the ?: shortcut syntax from C.

foo ?: bar instead of foo ? foo : bar

Show threadRobin NealSep 11, 2023
@north @gknauss in js that's usually achievable with || or ??
Aand I think c# has the ?? for doing that.
Show threadRobin NealSep 11, 2023
@north @gknauss yup!
c# https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/language-reference/operators/null-coalescing-operator
js https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/Nullish_coalescing
?? and ??= operators - null-coalescing operators - C# reference

The `??` and `??=` operators are the C# null-coalescing operators. They return the value of the left-hand operand if it isn't null. Otherwise, they return the value of the right-hand operand

Show threadJason Parker (he/they)Sep 11, 2023
@SudoCat @gknauss I was thinking there was some instance I ran into where I really wished I had it, but I can't come up with anything that ?? doesn't solve. It's probably just an old memory from a time before the existence of ?? in JS or maybe I'm misremembering which language it was (does PHP have that these days?).
Show threadBrian GerfortπŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦Sep 11, 2023

This has the stench of Swift all over it πŸ˜‚

https://mastodon.social/@gknauss/111046912763765216

Show threadrhempelSep 11, 2023
@gknauss - the line between idiomatic and idiotic is sometimes very thin
Show threadAlban KrausSep 11, 2023
At least, Javascript has short-circuit evaluation, unlike... C++.
Show threadholothuroidSep 11, 2023

@gknauss

Und in Scala gilt `Seq(7).toSet()==false`

Show threadPhil ReesSep 11, 2023

@gknauss If you're following Screwtape methodology you have to include an uncompleted reference that falsely hints at the existence of documentation.

πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš‹πšŠπšŒπš”?.(); // See pag

Show threadTomalakSep 11, 2023

I'm not even mad
That's amazing :D

"Vitalik Buterin's Twitter account hacked to promote crypto scam"

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/?id=vitalik-buterins-twitter-account-hacked

Vitalik Buterin's Twitter account hacked to promote crypto scam

The Twitter account belonging to Vitalik Buterin, inventor and effective leader of the Ethereum project, was hacked to promote a crypto scam. A tweet posted to his compromised account advertised a "commemorative NFT" to celebrate the impending release of "proto-danksharding", which is the actual name for an upcoming change to the Ethereum protocol.However, the link was a scam, and anyone who connected their wallet risked having their wallet drained of its cryptocurrency and NFTs. Some blue-chip NFTs were stolen, including two CryptoPunks (a collection with a floor price of around 47 ETH, or $76,800). Altogether, stolen assets surpassed $650,000 in value within a few hours of the theft according to zachxbt, though this counts notoriously difficult-to-value NFTs.The tweet was taken down within twenty minutes of being posted. All in all, posting a link to a wallet drainer was probably among the least effective things the attacker could do with the Twitter account of a person whose word can dramatically move markets.It did seem to be something of a stark warning to some in the crypto world, however, who expressed sentiments along the lines of "if Vitalik can get hacked, anyone can."

Web3 is Going Just Great
Show threadKlaus SteinSep 11, 2023

@gknauss Yes, monsters! Using this is really weird!

Rubyists know how weird this would be, therefore in Ruby we do

callback&.()

Show threadKazinatorSep 11, 2023

@gknauss

callback && callback()

is an idiom from C.

In Linux kernel source directory:

$ git grep -E -- '->([a-z]+).*&&.*->\1\('
arch/powerpc/platforms/powermac/low_i2c.c: if (bus->open && (rc = bus->open(bus)) != 0) {
arch/x86/kernel/apic/probe_64.c: if ((*drv)->probe && (*drv)->probe()) {
arch/x86/kernel/pci-dma.c: if (p && p->detect && p->detect() > 0) {
arch/x86/kvm/cpuid.c: if (ent->qualifier && !ent->qualifier(ent))

[ ... numerous hits]

Show threadJef PoskanzerSep 11, 2023
@gknauss They probably all result in the same machine instructions being run. The devs who prefer terse source code are somewhat of a mystery. Maybe they are worried about carpal tunnel and want to avoid typing too much?
Show threadMatt JacobsSep 11, 2023

@gknauss Good news is that you’re only ignorant and not an idiot. In pre-TypeScript days, I would have written something like this:

function ugh() {
alert("called it");
}

if (typeof ugh === "function") {
ugh();
}

Show threadGreg KnaussSep 12, 2023
@capndesign If the name somehow got assigned something other than a function β€” like a string got passed to the callback assignment instead of a function β€” wouldn’t you rather crash rather than silently not call it? That would be harder to debug.
Show threadMatt JacobsSep 12, 2023
@gknauss Oh, absolutely. I did not think particularly hard about your actual problem, as is standard for code reviews.
Show threadThomas MΓΌllerSep 11, 2023

@gknauss better:

if (typeof callback === β€œfunction”) { callback() }

Show threadBeau CollinsSep 11, 2023
@gknauss you will write machine code and you will like it!
Show threadGrassroots JoeSep 12, 2023

@gknauss

My 1st paid programming job was coding in MUMPS.

In MUMPS you can, or at least could, abbreviate commands to the 1st letter, use offsets, i.e. Go to {line_label} + 5, and indirection, i.e. Go @{variable_name} where {variable_name} was previously set to {line_label} + 5.

So...

s v1="nextloop + 5"
g @v1

Someone adds a line for an additional condition 2 lines after 'nextloop' and night support has to figure out why things are crashing...
Talk about monsters pretending to be coders.

Show threadjoel bSep 12, 2023
@gknauss im no javascript dev but… I don’t hate what you’ve done here
Show threadNicolas DufourSep 12, 2023
@gknauss ahahah yes javascript is truly a beast ...
Show threadJulianoΓ«Sep 12, 2023
@gknauss just so you know, that's what such a toot looks like for some of us
Show threadJaakko NissiSep 12, 2023

@gknauss you should get Javascript: the Good Parts by Douglas Crockford.

If the code is there, use it. If it's not, leave it to the monsters.

(The book could be a bit outdated in missing latest features, but the basics haven't gone anywhere with the new hotness...)

Show threaduvokSep 12, 2023
@gknauss iirc c# has this to, you can do object?.Method()
Show threadTim SeverienSep 12, 2023
@gknauss I guess I’m a monster then
Show threadγ€ŒΚ€α΄Κ™α΄‡Κ€α΄›γ€Sep 12, 2023
@gknauss the hip kids use promises nowadays πŸ˜…
Show threadVadim MakeevSep 12, 2023
@gknauss Speaking of monsters… I wish you’d use text for your code examples, not a bunch of special math characters that: a) won’t run if copy them in the browser, b) will be verbosely spelled one by one if read via a screen reader.
Show threadRichard ASep 12, 2023
@gknauss Find and replace "real" with "Experienced". If you came across callback?(); would you intuitively know what it does? That's a question that is always worth asking. I am not being critical, I am playing with a thought experiment, for myself. I'll see when I get to use this snippet of code.
Show threadJillSep 12, 2023

@gknauss

I...

Listen it makes sense to me when I do it ._.

Show threadAlexandra LanesSep 12, 2023
@gknauss Is it bad that I think that last one is kind of cute?
Show threadKevin LydaSep 13, 2023
@gknauss Stop. You're making perl jealous!