Norman Wilson

Today in it's not #AlwaysDNS: it was some combination of #systemd and the incomprehensibly complicated dbus services underlying the Linux desktop architecture (from the people who brought you systemd, naturally).

But at least I found the answer: block yet another systemd --user service by creating a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/systemd/user, and now unsnapped #Firefox no longer stalls for 30 seconds every time it starts on #Ubuntu 22.04.

Sep 5, 2023 at 1:58amWeb
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
Every successive Ubuntu LTS release is harder to make work for an enterprise workstation environment. It's like they care only about nerds with PCs in Mom's basement. When will it stop?
Show threadSteve BellovinSep 5, 2023
@oclsc Many years ago, I saw a cartoon with a snooty car sales rep for a Very Expensive Car saying to a prospective customer, “Of course you like the car. But does it like you?” Same deal here—the Ubuntu release has to like your nerdiness level to let you run it.
Show threadChris SiebenmannSep 5, 2023
@oclsc My impression is that Canonical's priority order is something like cloud servers > servers > laptops with standard configurations >> non-default setup desktops.
Show threadAccount: ComputersSep 5, 2023
@oclsc Install Fedora
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@pro You've never been involved in an enterprise environment, have you?
Show threadAccount: ComputersSep 5, 2023
@oclsc the ubuntu user says what
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@pro The sysadmin running an environment with 70 servers and 180 managed workstations tells you to wipe your runny little nose.
Show threadLou KatzSep 5, 2023
@oclsc Ubuntu has become so annoying I'm starting to migrate over to pure Debian.
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@lou I don't know what direction we ought to go. Pure Debian may not have the rich third-party software ecosystem we need. And it still has systemd and all its sticky web.
Show threadLou KatzSep 5, 2023
@oclsc I sort of slid away from FreeBSD and have forgotten how to wrangle it. I am running it on a few machines, partly because I am so used to and like ipfw as a firewall. I looked at ipchains a while back and my head started to hurt. I use the table feature of ipfw a lot. Maybe I should slither back to FreeBSD?
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 6, 2023
@lou I'm a big fan of OpenBSD for network appliances: home firewall/router, work firewalls/routers, work Kerberos KDCs. In particular pf just can't be beat, esp combined with clean multiple routing domains. Haven't looked a lot at FreeBSD because, last I checked, network boot for install and automated install were too damn hard, and even for home I won't do without those.
Show threadLou KatzSep 6, 2023
@oclsc I will look into OpenBSD. I don't need network boot/intall for my setup. Thanks
Show threadTeknikal_DomainSep 5, 2023
@oclsc isn't that literally the job of systemctl mask?
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@tek_dmn Not to globally mask a user service, alas. Unless I've missed the magic option.
Show threadTeknikal_DomainSep 5, 2023
@oclsc I know that for system-wide services, all the mask command does is link /etc/systemd/system/SERVICENAME.service to /dev/null, I'd figure --user would do the same for user services, but I don't know (I haven't used it much on the per-user side)
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@tek_dmn If I add --user it fusses about dbus. I get the feeling it wants --user to be per-user. Simpler just to make the link myself (or, more accurately, to tell config mgt to make it).
Show threadSpaceLifeFormSep 5, 2023

@oclsc

This does not happen on pure Debian.

Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@SpaceLifeForm It doesn't happen on VAX/VMS either.
Show threadMarcos DioneSep 5, 2023
@oclsc you plan to keep the secret to yourself? ;-) provide more info!
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023

@mdione You want to spoil the fun for others?

OK, then: xdg-desktop-portal.

Show threadLou KatzSep 5, 2023
@oclsc Is systemd of any use at all?
Show threadNorman WilsonSep 5, 2023
@lou The core of systemd is a dependency-driven init system. If they'd just stuck with that, and added the dynamic recovery of Sun's SMF, it would have been a step forward. Alas, their focus wasn't on simple tooling and reliability but on fast booting and on remaking the world in their image. It's like the guys who added all that crap to wc in 1980 came back and rewrote init.