Cory DoctorowAug 6, 2023

Fool Me Twice We Don't Get Fooled Again: There's a crucial difference between federatable and federated.

https://doctorow.medium.com/fool-me-twice-we-dont-get-fooled-again-20074e311f1f

#Bluesky #Threads #Mastodon #Fediverse #Federation #SwitchingCosts #UlyssesPacts

Show threadCory DoctorowAug 6, 2023

The Wit and Wisdom of #GeorgeWBush (a very slim volume)

https://doctorow.medium.com/fool-me-twice-we-dont-get-fooled-again-20074e311f1f

#Facebook #Twitter #Bluesky #Threads #Rugpulls #NonconsensualFuckabilityRatingService

Show threadBen RamseyAug 6, 2023

@pluralistic After spending several months on Bluesky and working with the protocol (on building a PHP library for it), I realized it’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Even if/when they do federate, the intent appears to be for large companies to run major portions of the protocol.

And Bluesky just converted to a C corp to take on venture capital.

I deactivated my account last week because I won’t get fooled again.

(I now have that song by The Who stuck in my head.)

Show threadLukas BergstromAug 21, 2023
@ramsey @pluralistic what do you mean by "run major portions of the protocol"? Control the protocol specification?
Show threadBen RamseyAug 21, 2023
@lukasb @pluralistic This post and the one right after it explain what I mean. https://phpc.social/@ramsey/110848783925619565
Boo Ramsey 👻🎃💀 (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Admittedly, I’m doing some reading-between-the-lines, but IMO, it’s implied: “The federation architecture allows anyone to host a BGS, though it’s a fairly resource-demanding service. In all likelihood, there may be a few large full-network providers, and then a long tail of partial-network providers. Small bespoke BGSs could also service tightly or well-defined slices of the network, like a specific new application or a small community.” https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/5-5-2023-federation-architecture

PHP Community on Mastodon
Show threadLukas Bergstrom

@ramsey @pluralistic ah! Sorry I missed that.

Must admit I'm pretty taken with the marketplace of algorithms idea ... but I see what you mean about the BGSes.

Aug 21, 2023 at 5:39amWeb
Show threadBen RamseyAug 21, 2023
@lukasb @pluralistic I definitely think they have some good ideas in terms of the protocol and tech, but they have lots of people/culture problems they think can be solved by the tech, which IMO, won’t work out for them.
Show threadJW prince of CPHAug 21, 2023
@lukasb @ramsey @pluralistic "Marketplace of..." is never not bullshit.
Show threadLukas BergstromAug 21, 2023

@jwcph @ramsey @pluralistic maybe. But there's a lot of potential in new timeline algorithms, I think - I'm excited about the idea of just letting devs try out new ideas here.

Basically I'm wondering if we can surface good stuff without the "optimizing for car crashes" aspect of current social media algorithms.

Show threadJW prince of CPHAug 21, 2023

@lukasb @ramsey @pluralistic I don't agree. There will be no possible way for us, the users, to have any kind of transparency into how any given algo works. Even in the best case scenario - say, one where you can fine-tune the algo to your preferences somehow - you still have no idea in hell how it achieves the feed you're looking at.

For all you can possibly know, any algo you choose may be laden with all sorts of icky or dangerous biases & there's no way for you to know.

Show threadLukas BergstromAug 21, 2023
@jwcph @ramsey @pluralistic I don't understand. Why couldn't developers open-source their algorithms? (Yes, it's more complicated if there's machine learning involved, but it's also possible there.)
Show threadJW prince of CPHAug 21, 2023
@lukasb @ramsey @pluralistic Open-sourcing algos won't help in the slightest. Even experts won't be able to agree how an algo actually works in the wild just by reading the code - and everyone else will be utterly without a single chance of getting any kind of clarity or understanding from anywhere.
Show threadBen RamseyAug 21, 2023
@jwcph @lukasb @pluralistic Algorithms are code routines. You can tell what an algorithm does by reading the code. You’re giving the machines too much credit; none of them make decisions independently of the code and data given to them.
Show threadJW prince of CPHAug 22, 2023
@ramsey @lukasb @pluralistic - and you might be giving me too little credit; I obviously know that. I also know, however, that code is a messy business, and that anything involving many parts all interacting with each other can be difficult - or impossible - to untangle & map out clearly (here meaning: In a way a non-expert can understand, which also accurately predicts the system's behavior).