FW Isamu
RosamundiOh.
Glitch@rosamundi ffs, there’s legit no line for these people, huh?
@glitchontwitch there is not. This is going to kill people.
scohoe@scohoe @rosamundi I disagree. Nothing against the book itself, but we shouldn’t ignore the works of other foragers and different voices in the foraging world.
However you are touching on one thing we can be doing to mitigate this. Which is specifically focusing on books by authors we’re aware of and/or vouched for by trusted sources. (Though beware of fake books pretending to be by known authors, as that’s another thing that’s been happening.)
Hanfbaum@glitchontwitch @scohoe @rosamundi problems are in the detail. Some sites listing all books of an author have just added fake books in there name to the lists. Most of the time names are not secured from fakers. So verifying if its a true book isn't that easy.
Yes for entertainment the risks are low, but for mushrooms for example they can be deadly.
Yes for entertainment the risks are low, but for mushrooms for example they can be deadly.
@Hanfbaum @scohoe @rosamundi absolutely. That was part of what I was referencing. I’ve seen some authors point out that even when they found out about books impersonating them on Amazon, they couldn’t actually do anything about it.
But if an author has an online presence, that’s one way to verify that a book should be theirs, barring books that flat out copy the title and cover.
Mind, the gravity of the situation hasn’t been in doubt in this convo.
FreebirdFrolic@glitchontwitch @scohoe @rosamundi
How can we be aware when, as beginners, we have no guidelines for what is fake and dangerous? Names, titles, and determinants of fakery seem vital to me. Are the books published in hardcopy and sold in stores, or are they online pubs?
Demon Queen Lucretia@scohoe if you pick a leafy plant and a mushroom, the leafy plant is more likely to be what kills you.
This is most likely going to be where the AI kills somebody, there's much more to foraging than mushrooms.
This is most likely going to be where the AI kills somebody, there's much more to foraging than mushrooms.
LisPi@rezzyreksya @scohoe I'm reminded of the story of a certain expedition in Australia almost starving to death on some plant before locals taught them the rather non-obvious preparation method to make it remotely edible.
It might have been inspired in large part by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Wills_expedition#Cause_of_death
Samhain Night@scohoe @rosamundi @glitchontwitch That author died eating a poison mushroom. If it even looks slightly like a poisonous mushroom, leave it alone. A neighbor of mine who was a professional gardener died from accidental eating deathcap mushrooms.
Stephen@subtl @scohoe @rosamundi @glitchontwitch Huh. I’d read in the paper a few years ago that he’d died from mushroom poisoning. His books are really popular out here on the coast, so people were talking about it. Strange.
@rosamundi @glitchontwitch I think it should be considered giving medical advice, with the usual legal consequences for faking being actually qualified to give it.
Eleanor@rosamundi Who knew the future would be so stupid.
@eleanorrees and so potentially deadly.
Kendal@eleanorrees Understatement of the century.
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote@eleanorrees @rosamundi Anyone who’s seen the past and was sober enough to remember it…
@Pineywoozle @eleanorrees @rosamundi
Lethal fakers, such as the heinous Tylenol scurge, resulted in strict, universal, packaging design changes that were made law. AI requires such intervention.
Lethal fakers, such as the heinous Tylenol scurge, resulted in strict, universal, packaging design changes that were made law. AI requires such intervention.
@mlk @eleanorrees @rosamundi It does, but making it not monetarily attractive will have the widest effect. I loved the recent copywrite ruling for that reason. The people pushing it don’t care about anything but cash.
Siggi Bjarnason 🤠@rosamundi little shop of horror????
PJ "Vote Green" Coffey@funranium Welp... looks like they might kill people in foraging before they manage the physical sciences. So grim.
Riley S. Faelan
CTraceyWrites@rosamundi
Cool, I'm only going to be trusting print books that have existed for a while and very few online success l sources that I already trust. Like, I already used multiple sources to verify finds, but now I'm going to be a lot more strict on what those sources are.
Cool, I'm only going to be trusting print books that have existed for a while and very few online success l sources that I already trust. Like, I already used multiple sources to verify finds, but now I'm going to be a lot more strict on what those sources are.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág@rosamundi WTF, humans.
Nicol Wistreich@rosamundi SciFi missed this, AIs trying to kill us not with drones and bots, but bad advice and recipes (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/food/nz-supermarkets-ai-meal-bot-generates-poisonous-recipes-c-11581583).
Angela Glansbury 🚽
lizzzzard@floppyplopper @nicol @rosamundi do tell, please! I'd love to read anything from someone who thinks up such a mundane and insidious force of evil.
@lizzard @nicol @rosamundi
I think you would be wrong to think about such a thing as evil. A truly intelligent machine told to, say, "make as many books about fungi as possible" but not told "...but don't kill or harm any humans" might think about what could stop it making as many books as possible and make a rational decision to kill all humans, hide it's existence, or find some other way to prevent it from being switched off, but I don't think it would be reasonable to call it evil. It's simply making as many books about fungi as it can and possibly looking at humans as a source of, or competition for materials.
Something less intelligent though. Killing humans not deliberately as a survival strategy but through accident or attempting to simulate a human. Let me think about some specific examples.
@lizzard @nicol @rosamundi
number one example for me is the principal antagonist in the Paranoia TTRPG, Friend Computer. Friend Computer issues lethal and contradictory commands not out of malice but through incompetence.
There are the Greenfly Terraformers of Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space series. Rogue terraforming machines that turn everything into lush green habitats.
Trying to think of examples that aren't malfunctioning in some way. The real life examples are working perfectly correctly in that they're making or saving money and externalising costs.
@floppyplopper @lizzard @nicol @rosamundi These examples are exactly, what made my experience with ChatGPT frustrating. Absolute lack of context.
You have to specify everything to utmost detail, because the Thing doesn't use / know context.
For us it's obvious not to lie, thus kill people, thus anger people, thus cause them to switch me off, etc.
And this is caused by bad memory management, thus lack of "instinct".
ChatGPT lied to me no problem. After pointing it out, lied some more.
You have to specify everything to utmost detail, because the Thing doesn't use / know context.
For us it's obvious not to lie, thus kill people, thus anger people, thus cause them to switch me off, etc.
And this is caused by bad memory management, thus lack of "instinct".
ChatGPT lied to me no problem. After pointing it out, lied some more.
@WashingtonIrving @floppyplopper @nicol @rosamundi chatgpt is basically ignoring Asimov's laws of robotics.
@lizzard @WashingtonIrving @nicol @rosamundi
if it's breaches of asimov's laws you're looking for book 2 of Ton 10 by Alan Moore has quite a nice one.
if it's breaches of asimov's laws you're looking for book 2 of Ton 10 by Alan Moore has quite a nice one.
sabik
Martin 🧀@rosamundi I guess he is talking about hXXps://www.amazon.com/Mushrooms-Illustrated-Field-Guide-Guides/dp/195151131X
That's not going to end well
αxel simon ↙︎↙︎↙︎@mart_e @rosamundi sue these bastards out of existence
nev@mart_e @rosamundi "the illustration used for Deconica montana is a direct copy of one of Paul Stamet's photos of Psilocybe baeocystis, which is a VERY different species (the former is non-hallucinogenic, the latter is strongly hallucinogenic)"
What could go wrong
PulkoMandy
Ma Quest 
@rosamundi Sounds like one for #FungiFriday #Mushtodon and more. Please feel free to add appropriate #HashTags. 🍄
@MaQuest will do, thank you.
@rosamundi Many thanks for the warning!
@rosamundi I forgot to add #Mushrooms! 🍄
Kate Watson@rosamundi have you seen this @cabd ?
Cab@antinomy @rosamundi yeah, someone sent me that yesterday. Couple of people in fact. It's beyond unnerving.
@rosamundi @cabd I genuinely don’t understand what someone who publishes something like that is thinking. Could they genuinely believe the “AI knowledge” is more accurate?? But if so why conceal it’s AI generated?
Ben Sizer@antinomy @rosamundi @cabd I think the answer is that it’s simply something that could be made very quickly and sold for money. I doubt any other factors came into it.
@cabd @kylotan @rosamundi Oh, I’m sure you’re right. I’m just hoping against hope no one would intentionally be that utterly careless with other people’s safety :(
History is littered with people doing bad things in pursuit of a few quid. Just off the top of my head:
Edit: I misremembered my arsenic in sweets case, the Bradford poisoning was accidental. But it was deliberately used in all sorts of things that it shouldn't have.
Beauty product manufacturer: "there's this new thing, radium, don't know anything about it, but it glows in the dark, let's put it in face cream, we can tell ladies it will make them glow!"
And so on...
@rosamundi @antinomy @kylotan also, there are people who genuinely believe that AI will be better at this than people. So while indeed some folk are greedy, some are contemptuous of other people's welfare, some are also just horrifically misguided.
David S (inactive)@cabd @rosamundi @antinomy @kylotan
it's an interesting question when some will only see two options:
Is a flawed algorithm that's 100% consistent better than some overworked human that rushes stuff and makes mistakes or misses these things.
Of course the third answer is rarely considered which is:
pay good people a good wage to do a good job with good governance. But that one's expensive, so of course nobody wants that.
Jae H
@attendingjohn we're all going to be killed by stupid and greed.
@rosamundi I mean I knew the AIs would turn on us and destroy us sooner or later, I just thought it would be more Terminator 2 than Ray Mears’ Wild Food
Hypnotosov@rosamundi @attendingjohn that was always going to happen, I just didn't realise it was going to be *this* stupid
@rosamundi Could the publishers be held liable for harm caused by the fake guides?
endrift 🏳️⚧️@geoglyphentropy @rosamundi almost certainly, yes
J. Williams@rosamundi Mushroom identification varieties difficult for experts, let alone AIs!
Chris [list of emoji]Boosted for visibility.
Clarissa C. S. Ryan@rosamundi Given how quickly so many people have turned to completely trusting LLMs for advice on everything, I sincerely wonder if anyone's already injured themselves doing something like this--describing a mushroom to a language bot and asking for a recipe, or combining medications or something.
Dom@rosamundi surely there's no difference between a human doing it and someone asking an AI to do it for a human? A human still has to sell that book. So they should face the same charges as someone who didn't use AI.
jonossa seuraava@rosamundi
If that is true, I hope everyone involved in the sales will get sued out of existence
If that is true, I hope everyone involved in the sales will get sued out of existence