@skinnylatte Truckers are apparently considered the last blue collar job that still paid a middle class sort of a wage.
Also: trucking long hours as a middle-class job while AI gets to write poetry is… the opposite of what the golden age of sci-fi promised us. 😬
@skinnylatte As a 'software engineer,' who grew up with a father who went to night school to get his tool & die papers, it was immediately obvious we had essentially the same job: turning unclear specs into a concrete implementation following standardized processes.
We use roughly the same level of math, require the same level of QC.
He retired in 2020 making $46,000. My first full time software job in 2008 paid me $44,000. Before that I was making $20/hr part time.
@skinnylatte A win for any workers is a win for all workers because it puts upward salary pressure across the board.
It turns: "Don't like your tech salary? What are you gonna do instead, deliver packages?" With a condescending sneer.
Into: "I don't like the offered tech salary, I might consider package delivery instead." As a negotiation tool & legit option.
Corporations want all of us to look down on other careers, because less worker mobility benefits employers not us.
@earthshine I guess I also had in mind the San Francisco tech bros who, as early as 2011/2012, reacted so strongly against the idea that a train driver could make six figures that they went on to do all kinds of bad politics after that. People who are compensated well but don’t think others should.
All workers should demand better compensation; putting down other workers doesn’t sit well with me. But I know what you mean. It goes to show the importance of organize labor, too.
@skinnylatte yeah the superiority complex is a really infuriating feature, especially since it is so often espoused by people whom exist outside of the working class where all the labor is performed. Those "tech bros" aren't the engineers and the programmers, but the venture capitalists and landed gentry whom seized the opportunity to exploit the labor of others to their own ends.
Often when discussing things like the value of labor and fair pay, workers rights etc... those workers whom are privileged enough not to struggle get super defensive. They've been conditioned to believe that being better off financially makes them the target of the struggling workers' anger. And sometimes it does--because of the classist attitudes they display in their jealousy.
But they are wrong to believe that they are not of the working class. Some of them may be paid disproportionately more for their labor, sometimes on merit or talent, or circumstance, or nepotism, or blind fucking luck... but at the end of the day it is their labor that they sell for their paycheck. They do work and contribute to society in whatever way that they do. They are not the problem. They may think they are. They may side with *the problem* , but in doing so they are just class traitors.
The owner class is exploiting them both.
@skinnylatte if they aren't getting out of their dead end industry and going where the compensation is, that sounds like a them problem. They shouldn't have wasted 4 years in college on STEM, but it's not too late for them to go back, learn to drive, and get CDLs that will make them employable.
🙄
@skinnylatte The very notion of certain jobs/work being “no or low-skilled” is very classist and elitist. Someone once said, “if you have to be taught how to do something then that IS a skill.” Most of those snobs upset about the UPS labor agreement would crumble in 15 minutes if they had to do the taxing manual labor snd service work required to keep our nation operating. EVERYONE deserves a living wage.
Congratulations to the #UPS drivers for standing together and strong. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾 #workersolidarity #economicjustice
I imagine that "and benefits" is doing a lot to inflate that figure tbh. People forget how expensive it is to get health insurance for a whole family.
@skinnylatte logistics is literally a cornerstone of our entire civilization. I don't understand how they can't understand why the jobs are important.
Heaven forbid someone gets paid decently for a job. Complete lack of social awareness and a complete lack of worker solidarity.
@skinnylatte This is also being touted in an easily-misinterpreted way. The total package of salary AND benefits would amount to $170k.
Any tech bro can tack on >30% to their salary and get an idea of “total package”
I believe it’s being reported this way to turn public opinion against UPS workers’ well-deserved package and union negotiating so others don’t get ideas.
@skinnylatte I am surprised no one pointed it out, but please be aware that AMP links are evil:
https://l.opnxng.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot/
https://www.theregister.com/2017/05/19/open_source_insider_google_amp_bad_bad_bad/
AMP is one of many attempts by Google to seize total control of the Web. If you value the Open Web and privacy as a human right, which I guess you do by being on the Fediverse, please make sure to share the canonical link instead. In this case it is: https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-comments-170k-ups-driver-deal-anger-admiration-2023-8
P.S: Mastodon allows edits.
I have done both jobs, currently a software engineer at one of the biggest tech companies. Drove UPS during college.
The drivers are worth every penny. Good for them.
Solidarity brothers and sisters
I think it's an American problem. Implementation of capitalism has created a mindset of "us vs them" and affluence is the only metric that counts.
Whatever excuse they come up with for hating serves it's purpose in reinforcing that "they" are unworthy. Kindness, care, and compassion have become trigger words for the "worthy" to ridicule.
@skinnylatte These UPS workers aren't taking home $170k anyway, that's the total value of the compensation package for long-time employees, which includes insurance, retirement contributions, pensions, and probably a bunch of stuff that you and I wouldn't consider "pay". According to the union, the average top pay is $49/hr, which is a far cry from $170k a year.
The tech workers who are supposedly angry (which is probably highly exaggerated for clickbait purposes) likely make significantly more than that.
@skinnylatte yeah all the fintech bros and galaxy brained financial engineers at Blackrock, Vanguard, BoA, et al should threaten to strike and see if the world gives out a multi-billion $/day loss to the economy if they did... oh wait, that's right their work doesn't actually contribute to the real economy like UPS, railroads, or dock workers does.
As a white collar worker myself, to all of my fellow office drones who don't value essential workers: Get Bent!
@skinnylatte Agreed. I see it a lot from the liberatarian crowd on HN, too.
I don’t understand why people feel slighted when someone else’s life gets slightly shittier before theirs. We’re all struggling, it doesn’t take anything away from them. 😭
@skinnylatte LOL, this just makes UPS an attractive place to jump tbh..
"Burnt out from tech? Go deliver packages"
Tech can be fun, but if i'm paid well enough in a non-tech job I might be happier doing it as a hobby.
Not even software engineers. There would be a lot of people who will say, “wait, I can make that much without a degree or a hard-to-develop skillset? Why am I suffering over here?! Count me in!”
And the market will say, “there aren’t enough positions.”
So they’ll say, “that’s fine. I’ll do it for less. Much less, even. It beats any prospects I have by a mile.”
And the union will say, “no.”
@paraic @skinnylatte
Unions don't guarantee excellent treatment.
I am part of a union of supervisors on my job. They are weak, and the membership at large isn't much better. We get trampled on, and get worse contracts than those we supervise.
Ultimately, the power is in the workers. Weak workers lead to weak unions.
@skinnylatte wow, I read that and I wonder if the folks reacting even know basic economics.
the UPS folks need to be making this much? they have to eat and pay for housing in the same markets the tech workers do? the tech salaries are what drove up prices? SMH
@draNgNon @skinnylatte Not just the tech salaries, a whole bunch of regulatory negligence also helped make things worse (#CarCentric development and SFH zoning is a major contributor in North America).
In the end though, that still leaves delivery drivers (and everyone else) needing to cope with the costs that induces.
@skinnylatte Yeah. Every worker deserves to be paid well for their labour. We should all aspire to $170k or more. Workers deserve the full compensation for the value we produce. The idea that those of us behind a desk, typing away, deserve more than these drivers who deal with a lot of physically taxing work is so ridiculous.
Also, it's such a classic example of what anti-worker rhetoric is encouraged to divide the working class.
Worker solidarity ✊
@skinnylatte Everytime I hear some self-entitled fuck whine about how other people have got a better deal by committing to a strike this scene of 'the Rock' comes to my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXDSxgDUv-c
(full of machismo, I know, but the principle is solid: if you're not willing to go all the way and risk the consequences of a strike with dignity, shut the fuck up)
@skinnylatte I don't understand how people can view any job that involves driving as "unskilled work". It takes a huge financial and time investment to qualify as a driver. Even more as a commercial driver.
You put someone in control of a 400-ton freight train and dare to call them "Unskilled"?
Far too many (younger) software engineers have got the Right Libertarian Brain Worms.
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