Jon Bodner
shac ron ₪Reminder that everything is temporary except C and Make
Steve Canon@shac Counterpoint: COBOL and Fortran will be here after C and Make are abandoned.
@steve “here” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. The will exist in the same way dinosaurs still exist, as stratified layers of sediment that support the ground we walk on.
@shac Same applies to C and Make though. If we're honest it's all sedimentary rock underneath JS and WASM or whatever else is new.
Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
async sjolsen
FCLC@steve @shac Is that implying that COBOL isn't already abandonware? Can't think of *any* domain that's doing anything new in COBOL.
Fortran is still getting QoL improvements (Shoutout F18 for modern 754) and new projects, even if it's mostly/all HPC/Scientific codes.
Make is my beloved build system that I love for all its warts
C? Eternal and inevitable
Philippa Cowderoy@shac COBOL would like a word
Ax=b@shac you misspelled Fortran there
guenther@shac The same principle applies to HCFCs in the atmosphere and radioactive contamination in places like Fukushima and Chernobyl.
@shac this will be true even after rust replaced 99.99999% of c
Alonely0 🦀 🇪🇺@shac Machine code will be here when your flavor of assembly, C and any other language die.
Foone🏳️⚧️@shac my most recent project is c++ on DOS, built with make, running in a docker container. C and make is forever!
Wouter Verhelst
EndlessMason
Dave Fischer@shac I still write K&R C for a living.
SteleTrovilo@shac I've never written C or C++ on the job. I've also never introduced a buffer overflow vulnerability on the job. Not a coincidence.
wayahead@shac so far, only C and make is the default equipment for commerical product, maybe zig and nim can change.
too stupid for friends@shac and when you look for help, I will be there convoluting the search results.
✧✦Catherine✦✧@shac I'll do my best to make sure C isn't, though
Jeff Atwood@shac ... aaaand JavaScript
Jef Poskanzer@shac I'd add /bin/sh
lorddimwit is now @rk@well.comThe year is 2230. Climate change has ravaged the Earth. Our alien overlords, allied with our rogue AIs, rule with iron fists over the small bands of humans that roam the nuclear wastelands. C programmers start considering using C11 features without warning users about compiler requirements, but decide against it.
jwz@lorddimwit Just today I accepted a patch making XScreenSaver's minimum compiler target be ISO C99 instead of ANSI C89. Didn't want to rush into anything.
BTW I’m literally on a plane right now flying to Vegas to give a talk where my second slide is a quote from you. I hope this does not cause too much distress.
@lorddimwit I just hope it's a zinger
: j@fabrica:~/src; 
@lorddimwit @jwz You’ve discovered your text editor isn’t a sufficiently robust IDE. So you switch to emacs. Now you have two problems.
@lorddimwit @jwz
If you're doing regexps, you might be interested in the "Xerox Finite State Morphology" tools (XFST). The primary site seems to have disappeared (at XRCE) but I found this: http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/kit/2002k/ctl253/mltt/lexc93.html and the book https://web.stanford.edu/group/cslipublications/cslipublications/site/1575864347.shtml
After using XFST, Unix regexps seem both cryptic and underpowered; XFST can do operations such as composition, subtraction, union, negation, etc. The tools also can heavily compress the automata, so that a dictionary with part of speech and inflection information is more compact and faster than a hash table without the inflection info.
As an example, you can define a general rule that says a noun's plural is done by adding "-s", compose that with an automaton that changes "x-s" to "x-es" (and "ch-s" to "ch-es", etc.) and to another that changes "oxes" to "oxen". All within a single automaton.
@lorddimwit
Here's the archived primary site (there might be a later version, but this is probably good enough): https://web.archive.org/web/20011217150606/http://www.xrce.xerox.com/research/mltt/fst/
Here's the archived primary site (there might be a later version, but this is probably good enough): https://web.archive.org/web/20011217150606/http://www.xrce.xerox.com/research/mltt/fst/
@lorddimwit
It's possible that Ron Kaplan took the tools to the Powerset division of Bing in ~2006. If you want me to try to find out the status of things, I can try (no promises).
It's possible that Ron Kaplan took the tools to the Powerset division of Bing in ~2006. If you want me to try to find out the status of things, I can try (no promises).
Sami Juvonen@jwz @lorddimwit
Please post the flames you're going to get for destroying someone's Crucial Irreplaceable Workflow You Monster.
Please post the flames you're going to get for destroying someone's Crucial Irreplaceable Workflow You Monster.
Björkus "No time_t to Die" Dorkus@lorddimwit @shac It is the most likely future, honestly.
Clifton Royston"Which Make?" he asked, apparently innocently.
Upthorn@shac and COBOL and Fortran
mcc@shac i don't want kill c i just want to reduce it to a buggy abi
Paul Brownjohn1st Language I ever learnt and still my favourite!
Yureka@shac what about CMake
Stacey Campbell@shac C, make, /bin/sh, and Verilog have been paying my bills for decades.
And a pal of mine has been employed by a life insurance outfit for her COBOL programming skills for decades too.
[enantiomer has moved]@shac (ok but my language predates c by at over a decade)
Patrick (he/him) 🥑
@shac /me cries in Makefile.d
Morten Grøftehauge@shac Data scientists out there using Make as a pipeline tool for running Python scripts.
Daniel Django 
(Akkoma)@drgroftehauge @shac I guess they haven't found stu yet.
zerbp@shac
Oh No that is what cmake is trying to exploit
Oh No that is what cmake is trying to exploit
SixSider@shac I'm still using COBOL at work.
dprk_ebooksLaughs in COBOL
Darryl Ramm@shac @invalidname I hope like hell CMake is temporary. 🤷♂️
Bill the Lizard@shac and anything with a /*temporary workaround*/ comment.
fluids_guru@shac Fortran still walks among us
Brian Grinter@shac don’t you mean COBOL?
Saphire Lattice@shac I wish compiling a goddamn C project was /easy/ lol x.x
Fucking swear everyone makes their own bespoke build system instead of just using cmake or whatever
Officially Tara 🕷️ 
🌹@shac image description: meme of a guy holding up a sign, which reads "C will be here after your language is abandoned"
GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)@shac Image description: Man holds up sign: C will be here after your language is abandoned. People walk by.
made with mematic
made with mematic
Farbs@shac Actually probably exasperated rather than indignant.