Tim AmorJul 28, 2023
If you were searching for a new church community, what are the top 3 things that you would be looking for?
Show threadRebeccaJul 28, 2023

@timamor
1. Expository Bible teaching. Non-negotiable. Teach what God says in the text. If it ain't expository, it ain't preaching.

2. Understands the complexity of sin and evil. Understands that people suffer because of sins they didn't commit and doesn't treat that suffering as something to repent of. Call it "trauma-informed".

3. Spiritual friendship. Members care for each other practically *and* have gospel-flavored conversations freely.

Show threadRebeccaJul 31, 2023

@timamor I thought of a fourth one that might actually be a tie for third.

Poor people can be full members. Discipleship isn't paywalled. No studies they're excluded from because they can't afford the book, and no afterthought announcements ("if you can't afford the book, come see us"). Doesn't rely on expensive outside events for spiritual growth.

(Abuse prevention and response is the zeroth item on my list, for the record. I'm not shopping for it; I'm just demanding it.)

Show threadJulieBJul 31, 2023
@WordyAnchorite @timamor Rebecca, when you find a church, let me know. I've never been a good church shopper - the emotional burden of trying to choose a pile of people to do life with is overwhelming - but now I'm just plain afraid to walk in the door because of the many reasons I'd have to walk out. 😕
Show threadJames Fields Jul 31, 2023
@WordyAnchorite @timamor @JulieB wait, are you local to us too, Rebecca? If so, I’m also interested if you find a good church. :) we have many of the same things on our church shopping list, including the zero abuse tolerance.
Show threadJulieBJul 31, 2023
@jfslicer @WordyAnchorite @timamor I was being a bit mouthy . . . like at this point I'd move. My apologies for getting your hopes up, James!
Show threadJames Fields 
@timamor @JulieB @WordyAnchorite no worries. Sometimes I think it’s be easier to start a new church for all us in this camp. Like it shouldn’t be hard to find a church that cares well for the abused.
Jul 31, 2023 at 2:07pmWeb
Show threadJulieBJul 31, 2023
@jfslicer @timamor @WordyAnchorite Exactly. I see home churches in our future . . . and in our first century past. I see no reason, personally, for more than 20 people. Much bigger and you have to get organized and paid and hierarchy etc. Just my opinion. Not even really calling it Biblical for sure. 🤷‍♀️
Show threadJames Fields Jul 31, 2023
@timamor @WordyAnchorite @JulieB in the book Letters to the Church, Francis Chan argues for house church model. He moved to doing something like that in the San Francisco Bay Area. There is still leadership above the house churches, which I think is good as it gives you someone to go to if your leader is being inappropriate.
Show threadJulieBJul 31, 2023
@jfslicer @timamor @WordyAnchorite Yes! I know I'm not far off but wanted to assert gently since I'm sipping coffee in my garden, deadheading old buds and taking pics! Not exactly in a position to make any kind of stand if someone gets fussy at me! 😉 I am now getting up from the boulder and finishing my tasks. Have a good day all! 🥰
Show threadRebeccaJul 31, 2023

@jfslicer @timamor @JulieB I don't think the size of the congregation matters as much as the power distance. There are small groups and house churches that are little cults and bigger gatherings that are healthy.

I think it is helpful to have a particular group of people who are your "cell", the first friends you call, the people you're closest to. But as a single adult, I've experienced both care and exclusion under that model.

Basically, I'm size agnostic.

Show threadPizza da CampbelliteAug 2, 2023
@WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor @JulieB We are in the process of leaving our home congregation of over 20 years due to "progressive" teaching. Roughly 180 members in the center of Houston, everyone knows everyone. It caters to the 20 or so millionaire members to the exclusion of the other 90% and is averse to change. The leadership team is fabulously wealthy and largely agnostic.
The church to which we are moving is 17 miles closer, preaches the Bible as written, has 3500 members, and leadership spams the race and wealth gamut.
I feel more at home in the midst of a massive crowd than in the intimate setting of my previous congregation. As Rebecca suggests, they offer resources from the congregational budget rather than force people to buy stuff we can't afford.
Show threadJulieBAug 2, 2023
@StoneKamino @WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor At work. So much to say but it will have to wait. 😔
Show threadJulieBAug 3, 2023
@StoneKamino @WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor Yesterday was a never-ender. My apologies for the drama of 'so much to say'. I did not recognize the thread into which Pizza spoke - I just read about leaving a church and all the feels came up but I knew I could not afford to feel them because the day I knew I was about to have. All of that to say, Pizza, I am happy for the change you're making and the fit it already is and also sad about the losses that will also occur as you switch families.
Show threadPizza da CampbelliteAug 3, 2023
@JulieB @WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor thank you Julie, it's tough on all of us. But this is a place I feel comfortable to open up to the men's group - lay it all out. AA, family problems, spiritual struggles...and they truly care.
Show threadcleopasAug 2, 2023
@StoneKamino ", they offer resources from the congregational budget rather than force people to buy stuff we can't afford." i'm intrigued by this comment, can you elaborate please? @WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor @JulieB
Show threadPizza da CampbelliteAug 2, 2023
@cleopas @WordyAnchorite @jfslicer @timamor @JulieB
In her post, @WordyAnchorite mentioned that some churches (like my previous congregation) hosted studies where members had to purchase books or study guides. Little known fact, if you said, "I can't afford it," they would provide one for you.
My new congregation spares the embarrassment. They hand out the resources to those attending the class without requiring repayment.
Show threadJames Fields Aug 2, 2023
@cleopas @timamor @JulieB @WordyAnchorite @StoneKamino when I ran a Bible study, I told them it was a suggested donation of x and to find me later if they wanted to pay. I didn’t want anyone paying in front of the group.
Show threadRebeccaAug 2, 2023

@jfslicer @cleopas @timamor @JulieB @StoneKamino I like this approach better than "tell me if you can't pay". I will say, though, that "suggested donation" language is still rough on me when I can't afford it; I still fear being quietly judged, or like I have to double check that it's really okay, and sometimes that's too much to face, so I just sit it out.

I'd feel better about something like "Please sign up if you're interested so we know how many copies/tickets we need to get. If you'd like to help us cover the costs, see Jane." That makes it clearer that there's not an expectation of payment.

Show threadJames Fields Aug 2, 2023
@JulieB @WordyAnchorite @timamor @StoneKamino @cleopas we also said they didn’t have to pay. I get it it, it’s rough when you don’t have the money, but we never thought twice about it if someone paid less or couldn’t pay at all.
Show threadRebeccaAug 3, 2023

@jfslicer @JulieB @timamor @StoneKamino @cleopas Right, it's less about what's in *your* head than what's going on in the *hearer's* head. People can carry a lot of shame that you didn't put there. Part of carrying one another's burdens, I think.

Similarly, a Chinese student and convert told me that one barrier to Chinese people accepting an invitation to attend church is that they think they have to pay to attend. He explains to people right up front that the offering plate is for members who choose to give, not an admission fee. My home church tradition explains that every week, too, to take that burden off. It's not that anyone *told* them that putting money in the plate was expected (like the "suggested donation" box at the entrance to Publix museums). It's just that people bring preconceptions and prior experiences with them to church.