Charlevoix #NWMI in JulyJul 11, 2023
FediTips has moved!

There are lots of interesting group accounts you can follow on here, they work like this:

1. Follow a group's account to see discussion of its topic
2. @ the account if you want to post to the group
3. The account boosts anything @-ed to it, be careful when you @ them so that you don't spam the group (spammers tend to be reported and blocked)

More info, incl. how to create groups, at:

➡️ https://fedi.tips/how-to-use-groups-on-the-fediverse/

I've listed some active and friendly groups at:

➡️ https://fedi.directory/tag/fediverse-groups/

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How to use discussion groups on Mastodon and the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Jul 11, 2023 at 6:38pmWeb
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

Groups federate much more effectively than hashtags, so they are a useful alternative to hashtag following. Group posts reach all the group's followers no matter which server they are on. This makes them very useful on very new servers that haven't built up many connections yet.

I haven't listed any example groups by @-ing as I don't want to spam any group's members. However, if you want to post to a group all you need to do is @ it.

2/2

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@feditips Try this in plain, human-centered English please. This clarifies nothing.
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@smokler

If you read the article I linked to, it is in plain English.

I'm trying to work within character limits so I can't repeat the article verbatim on here.

Was there some particular part of this post that I can clarify?

I added the second post because inevitably when I mention groups there are lots of replies saying "Groups are obsolete, we can just use hashtag following", so I was trying to pre-empt having to do lots of replies to replies.

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023

@feditips Fair enough. And yes, I was able to follow the hip hop group via the instructions laid out in the article. But the purpose of a summary is to shorten AND clarify not simply shorten. Also first sentences, to borrow and old-fashioned rule from both newspaper journalism and songwriting are where you grab the reader/listener. So starting with

1. Follow the account to see discussion of the topic

My first reaction as a reader is (1/2)

Show threadGustavo 🎮🔭🇵🇷Jul 11, 2023
@smokler @feditips I use the @puertorico group for this purpose and it works well 👍
Show threadSo‑Called VaughnJul 11, 2023

@astromecanik @smokler @feditips In layman’s terms, mentioning a group is like mentioning everyone that follows it.

To illustrate : Gustavo just mentioned the ‘puertorico group’ by its user handle and it got ‘forwarded’ (or ‘pushed’) to myself and its other followers.

Show threadRage Against LeavesJul 11, 2023

@smokler @feditips

from what i read it sounds like its saying mastodon has groups. if you follow one any time someone messages that page, you and everyone else following it will also see that message.

this is just my take. didnt even know this was a thing 2 secs ago

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@rageagainstleaves Agreed. @feditips is currently being very patient listening to me complain/moan and groan about to begin with clear information and not leave it to the end of the post/necessitate a click elsewhere.
Show threadNeonJul 11, 2023
@smokler Groups are like mailing lists. You can join the mailing list by following the group (e.g., I can follow @/fantasy@/a.gup.pe - I added the slash so it doesn't spam the tag) for discussions about fantasy books/movies. Everything you post that tags this group will appear in the home timeline of everyone who follows this group. Of course, this means you will see all posts that tagged this group too. This works even if the poster is on a server that is not federated/connected to your server. You can explore what groups are available in the second link provided. I hope that helps @feditips
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@geraineon Sure does. Thank you. I won't ask you to explain federated servers in plain English because, I believe like water flowing uphill, its not actually scientifically possible.
Show threadNeonJul 11, 2023
@smokler You don't need to understand federation to do groups! But someday you might want to try to, because it is a pretty core to how fediverse works. Feditips is a great account who gives all these tips and compile suggested follow lists on a volunteer basis, so I do hope that you can be kinder in the way you communicate with them too. Have a good day
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@geraineon I promise I am not trying to be a jerk to @feditips who has been nothing but patient with me. I am simply a little tired of the culture around the fediverse (which @feditips is not the mayor of or something) that perceives its mores to be elementary and logical and then neglects to follow basic rules of elucidation in explaining them.
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@smokler @geraineon

It's my main aim with my websites and accounts to be as clear as possible to non-technical people, so I really appreciate it if people let me know that they don't understand something.

The character limit makes this difficult sometimes, but I'm trying my best 😅 Feedback always appreciated!

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@feditips I think ya doing great. I will say "I don't get it "next time without sounding like I just tripped over the curb and skinned my knee or something.
Show threadMin Jul 11, 2023
@smokler @geraineon Being "federated" just means that responsibility is spread out as opposed to being centralized. A good analogy is the post office system; every town has their own post office, and if you send mail to somebody local, it only goes through your local post office. If you send mail to somebody in another town, your local post office takes it to the remote post office, which then delivers it to the final recipient. Everybody in the system is part of a federation.

To extend the analogy, if one post office started delivering unsolicited hazardous materials to people, all of the other post offices may agree to no longer accept mail to/from them, which means they've been defederated. Mastodon works the same way; a server could become not federated either by choice or because other servers have agreed to refuse to communicate with them.

Let me know if anything there isn't plain English.
Show threadRage Against LeavesJul 11, 2023

@smokler @geraineon Imagine a normal web site is like a cell phone. Without cell service you cant call anyone. Thats most sites. The Fediverse is a like a cell service for social media

Users can add their own servers to it. And no CEO can decide to make decisions like Musk that ruin the experience for everyone else

With a cell phone if a number spams you, you can block it. Server mods in the fediverse can block or defederate those servers without good moderation

Show threadRage Against LeavesJul 11, 2023
@smokler @geraineon And the cool thing is other sites can eventually decide to change and get that cell service so users can talk to eachother
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 13, 2023
@rageagainstleaves @geraineon uh um, I promise I'm not trying to death-by-a-thousand-cuts the analogy but you can block a user whose being an ass to you on twitter also. And right now, stupid corporate social media services CAN talk to one another (I can post from twitter onto facebook, authorize Music Service X to tweet my playlists etc). There may not be a Musk-Ox on Mastadon to ruin it for everyone else, but is that the chief selling point of the fediverse? (1/2)
Show threadNeonJul 13, 2023
@smokler I don't know if you meant to tag both of us, but I'll try:

One thing that might help this understanding is keeping in mind that there are other services under the bigger umbrella of the federated universe (of which mastodon is a part of). E.g., Pixelfed is fediverse's Instagram. Kbin and Lemmy are fediverse's reddit. You don't need an account on Pixelfed to follow and see posts from someone from Pixelfed. You can also reply straight from your own Mastodon account to your friend's Pixelfed post on your timeline. What you described in your first reply is different, because you are describing being able to post from a your account on one platform to your account on a different platform. As far as I know, you cannot follow or reply to a Facebook account on your Twitter and vice versa.

@rageagainstleaves
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 13, 2023
@geraineon @rageagainstleaves That makes sense to me. In the example you have set forth here (the very clear one, thank you) one's "mother feed" is located on what service then? Where does one go to find their giant feed of where all their friends across all the different federated services are communicating?
Show threadNeonJul 13, 2023
@smokler @rageagainstleaves If you have followed them on your account, you will find their posts on your Home timeline
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 13, 2023

@rageagainstleaves @geraineon

Here's the mistake I think most fediverse explanations make. They speak of it in terms of under the hood rather than UX.

How is Mastadon, fundamentally different than twitter for average user? Not for admins, not in some technobabble theorizing like "decentralization" but like how Monday Morning at 10:13 AM? Is the answer No Musk? You get to see everyone in your feed? A short list of those answers, for people, by people, feels like the missing piece at present.

Show threadNeonJul 13, 2023
@smokler I'm not in the business to go and evangelize Fediverse to people. To the average user who has not experienced mass harassment or seen it happening, they will prioritize where their friends and followers/following list are. And the answer to what everyone wants in their social media is going to be different. For me, personally, I like that there's freedom to move to a different server if I want to, and take my following and follower list with me (e.g., if I want to move from blahaj.zone, I can! but moving from twitter the same way is impossible because there's only one twitter - you can think of twitter as one mastodon server as an analogy). I have already been on too many platforms ruined by corpo greed, so yes, this being non corpo is a big plus for me. I am not sure if you have tried reporting abusive tweets on Twitter but I have, lots, and lots and lots of times but they usually don't go anywhere. The fact that my server is small and I know who the admins are, and I know reports get taken seriously is also a huge plus for me (this may not apply to you because mastodon.social is huge).

so idk what your question is really asking, but that's my answer to why I am on here and I hope it helps
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 13, 2023
@geraineon The question I am really asking, now in particular, is why are you the very first person of the maybe dozen I have asked, who can clearly, plainly and humanly, articulate the benefits of this service (Mastadon) to people, average people without resorting to a bunch of techno-newsspeak about servers and instances?
Show threadNeonJul 13, 2023
@smokler

It's hard to know what people don't know. Many of the ppl here are tech/computer ppl, and servers is not a fediverse only thing, e.g. if you game online, you know servers. I don't think I am the average user, but I have had teaching experience which might have helped

Also, people did not have to answer any questions here. But I find that people do try to answer, and I appreciate that, personally! If they are not answering at the level you can understand, it's okay to keep asking questions. You did, which is great, but honestly, the way you went about it also made me feel uncomfortable.

I did have to step away and go "okay, he did not mean so sound irate" before I come back to answer. So, if you are not getting the type of responses you need, maybe they, like me, read your messages and thought, "is he looking for an internet argument?" I was pretty close to just ignoring. This is not to say that you are - just to say that you can come off quite aggressive. A simple, "thank you, but maybe you can explain a bit more about [x]" can go a long way instead of "you are not speaking human language." and, hey, sometimes English is people's second language! or third!
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 14, 2023

@geraineon First off, thank you for reminding me that English is not the first language of everyone user on Mastadon. It was presumptuous and thoughtless of me to blithly assume that was the case. I appreciate you pointing out otherwise and I will strive to avoid that error in the future.

Second, I appreciate you pointing out that, while I told @feditips I wouldn't bellow and moan as if I'd skinned my knee, I clearly failed at that promise and sounded pointlessly aggressive (1/2)

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 14, 2023
@geraineon in what everyone else involved was treating as a respectful conversation and I wasn't. In the future, I will feel my feelings and then engage in dialogue as opposed to typing while feeling. Thank you for sharing with me. I will endeavor to behave like an adult next time. (2/2)
Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023

@feditips (2/2) "what account? What topic? Where?"

v.

Starting like so

"Following groups centered around certain topics (gardening, Lion taming) on mastadon is an easy process. Here's how"

1. Use the following tool to find groups that interest you

Tool link"

2. Enter your mastadon handle at which point the following will happen

or alternatively

3. If I group names comes though via your mastadon feed do this.

Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@smokler

"Enter your mastadon handle at which point the following will happen"

I'm not sure what you mean by this? You don't need to enter your handle anywhere.

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@feditips I went to the article featuring the very nice collection of groups you linked to. I found a group I liked. I hit "join" at which point it asked for my mastadon handle which I entered at which poitn I had joined.
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@smokler

Ah okay. There is an easier way, you can copy-paste the address into the search box on Mastodon. This will bring up the group's profile and you can just click "follow". (There are instructions for this on fedi.directory, in the link at the top saying "how to use this site".)

I'd normally just do a long list of mentioned accounts to follow over on @FediFollows so that you don't have to copy/paste. However, in this case it would spam all of the group members of all the groups

Show threadKevin SmoklerJul 11, 2023
@feditips Understood, thank you
Show threadOctavia Con Amore  Succubard's LibraryJul 11, 2023
@smokler @feditips While you're giving out unsolicited advice, here's a bit of news: you broke your thread by replying to the wrong comment  
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@OctaviaConAmore

Hey, let's be friendly here! 🙂

It is fine to say something if you think I'm unclear or could have phrased something better.

@smokler hasn't done anything wrong.

Show threadOctavia Con Amore  Succubard's LibraryJul 11, 2023
@feditips Don't worry, the snark is finely calibrated to be less than what I saw 
Show threadEmilyJul 11, 2023
@feditips very helpful, thank you!
Show threadEmilyJul 11, 2023
@feditips this also helps clear up a mystery I had come across where an account was just auto boosts - it was a group!
Show threadAlexandraJul 12, 2023
@feditips do you mean I do not see all the content if I follow the hashtags ? that explains a lot. especially why the european archaeology days were so quiet on mastodon (all I could see in the hashtag list were my own posts...)
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 12, 2023

@berangere444

Hashtags are passive filters for all the content that your server has noticed (if you're interested, there's a list of what servers notice at https://fedi.tips/which-posts-and-accounts-can-i-see-from-my-server/).

Groups are actively pushing all of their content to all the people who follow the group, no matter which server they are on.

So, they seem similar on the surface in how they work, but underneath the surface groups are a lot better at distributing posts.

Which Mastodon and Fediverse posts and accounts can I see from my server? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Show threadAlexandraJul 13, 2023
@feditips Thanks for the explanation. I tried following the group histodon but my time line was filled with far too much posts for me to read in one day. Finally it might be better for me to only see the bit of fediverse my server is connected to... I found some related less active groups in the histodon group posts though and I will give those a try ! I hope AskAnArchaeologist Day will still be fun in my limited part of the fediverse :)
Show threadJustinas DūdėnasJul 12, 2023

@feditips

If this kind of #groups functionality is provided as third party services, we have to understand them better before trusting them.

What are the terms of those services, what are resources and economic models powering them?

We have to know that by engaging we have our data safe and that we can rely on the service to sustain groups for our community in the long term.

Show threadwakest likes your bugs ⁂Jul 12, 2023
@dudenas a this type of group is basically just a relay, it doesnt really "host" data in the way that we normally think about what it means to be in a group. so if you make a post "in" a group, really you are making a normal post on your own feed that anyone responding too can participate in and the group is just a "bot" that reforwards those replies (depending on some perimeters)
Show threadJustinas DūdėnasJul 12, 2023

@liaizon thanks.

But if I understand things correctly, "relay" is also some (unknown) software, run by someone (unknown), for unknown reasons,

As any software as service, it has to have some (even if small) maintaining costs.

Data still comes through that server, in fediverse it is usually unencrypted and I guess in theory it can be tracked even without storing. It can also have bugs and downtimes and other reasons for unconsciously or consciously losing messages.

That requires repsonsibility.

If the relay service suddenly becomes unavailable, communities may crumble without even knowing who's responsible and how to fix it.

@feditips

edit: after looking at service's webs I see it is not so anonymous in the end. Still I'd include some info on how to think of trust in the intro.

Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 12, 2023

@dudenas

The Groups functionality is provided by servers running on FOSS, so its complete workings are available for outside inspection, and anyone with the needed technical knowledge can set up their own Groups server using the same software.

The people creating Guppe and running the main server are exceptionally transparent with their funding, they have a funding and budget page for their co-operative at https://opencollective.com/guppe-groups

And as Wakest says, it doesn't host data, just passes it on.

Guppe Groups Platform Co-op - Open Collective

The social groups app for Mastodon and the Fediverse where supporters decide what features to develop - brought to you by Immers Space

Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 12, 2023

@dudenas

"If the relay service suddenly becomes unavailable, communities may crumble"

That is the nature of the internet, if you rely on someone else's server.

That's why the Fediverse exists, to allow anyone to run their own servers, and avoid too much reliance on one server.

It is also why the Guppe software is FOSS so that anyone can set up their own server instead of relying on Guppe's official one. Guppe is providing all the right options, it's up to others to use those options.

Show threadSean C.Jul 11, 2023
@feditips this is awesome information i didn’t know about — thank you
Show thread72mzJul 11, 2023
@feditips
I'm confused. Are instances within groups or vice versa? I'm enjoying mastodon and joined the first instance I came across, but there are lots of nuances I still don't get.
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@72mz

Your instance is the same thing as the server you signed up on,. On here instances and servers are two words for the same thing.

In your case that's mstdn.party.

Group accounts are on special instances designed just to share posts, but the actual posts shared by a group are on whichever instance the poster signed up on.

Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 11, 2023

@72mz

By the way, if you ever want to check which instance an account is on, have a look at its profile page. The instance is the last part of the account address. More info at https://fedi.tips/whats-my-accounts-address-how-do-i-follow-other-peoples-addresses-how-can-people-follow-my-address/

What’s my account’s address? How do I follow other people’s addresses? How can people follow my address? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Show thread72mzJul 11, 2023
@feditips
Thanks. I knew about the instances and servers but now I understand the groups.
Show threadlackthoughtJul 11, 2023

@feditips > you see all of the group’s posts, even if they’re from accounts that haven’t federated to your server before

awesome feature! gonna check out some groups now

Show threadpodkaynelivesJul 11, 2023

@feditips Thanks as always for these tips, just signed up for some groups.

Hey #disabled, #MECFS, and #LongCovid folks: there are groups for us! Go to https://fedi.tips/how-to-use-groups-on-the-fediverse/ and https://fedi.directory/tag/fediverse-groups/ for more info!

How to use discussion groups on Mastodon and the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Show threadHyphlosionJul 11, 2023

@podkaynelives @feditips Which instance have you found that’s a good #longcovid support group? Asking for a friend.

#LongCovidSucks

Show threadpodkaynelivesJul 11, 2023
@Hyphlosion @feditips The nice thing is that you can use the hashtags to communicate across instances/servers (the ones your instance donphan.social is "federated" with aka connected with).
And groups seems to be the same. But if your friend is looking for an instance to join that would be welcoming and supportive in general, I have some recommendations! Let me know.
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 12, 2023

@Hyphlosion @podkaynelives

You don't have to be on a particular instance/server to join a group. The groups work across all the servers :)

Just follow the group's account to start receiving messages from the group, and mention the group's address in a post to take part in the discussion.

If you put this address into your search box on Mastodon it will make the group's profile appear. Just click follow to follow it.

@ longcovid @ a.gup.pe

(remove the spaces first though)

Show threadweakly catlike intelligenceJul 12, 2023
@feditips that reminds me: how does reporting work when you report a post from a different server? does the report go to my server’s admins or the post authors’?
Show threadFediTips has moved!Jul 12, 2023

@cathodion

If you do a report on Mastodon, you can send it to both your own server and the server of the post author. The report that goes to the author's server is anonymous.

It's an option that is presented during reporting a post.

Show threadNew ViewsJul 12, 2023
@feditips ty
Show threadSkyflareJul 13, 2023
@feditips How are these groups different from lemmy communities?
Show threadTommaths (he/him)Jul 19, 2023

@feditips
I tried this out with a Guppe group a while ago, but I went back a few days later and it had disappeared. I'm assuming they do that after a particular period of inactivity - about idea how long that is? I can't find any info on that.

The group I had in mind would get bursts of activity every month or so and quiet in between, rather than sustained activity every day. Is there a better option for that sort of situation?