Mastodawn

Barre Dijkstra Jul 4, 2023

Jerry 🦙💝🦙

It's probably obvious to most of you, but a big difference between the commercial social media platforms and the fediverse is that as those commercial platform grow, they get additional revenue from ads, from selling personal information, and otherwise monetizing their users. While that is turning out to not actually pay the bills for them, in the fediverse, just about every instance is run by volunteers and funded by donations or out of the volunteers' pockets. It's a labor of love and a hope for a better future. When traffic grows, we need to expand our capacity.

That is why I am asking, if you are able, please consider donating to the instance you on to help keep the fediverse ecosystem going. Typically the /about web page will have details on how to donate.

Note: I am well aware that many of you are not in a financial position to donate - and that is OK. We are here to serve you as well. Donations are completely optional.

Major Hayden 🤠Jul 3, 2023

@jerry You got some coffee from me, sir. I appreciate the hard work you're putting into it.

(Some of my favorite people are on your server.) 😉

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 3, 2023

@major many thanks. I appreciate you.

Andres Jalinton Jul 3, 2023

@jerry
I'm forcing your hand a little:
What do you think about big instances, should be a limit on how many users per instance is good for the

?
I'm grateful as always for your hard work maintaining a community.

LisPi Jul 4, 2023

@Andres @jerry It really depends on moderatable scale and affordability.

Both depend a lot on the operators' living conditions. If you live somewhere with expensive utilities and low wages, you simply won't have either the time nor money to properly take care of the instance (whether yourself or by hiring moderators).

Does it ever make sense to have hundreds of thousands of users? Probably not, no.

2xfo Jul 3, 2023

@jerry I'm curious what an average account should donate annually to cover their server costs and keep the admin within sanity's grasp

Major Dumpster Fire

@jerry I remember this having come up before, but which donation method gives you the biggest cut?

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 3, 2023

@majdumpsterfire good question. Kofi has the best rates

Major Dumpster Fire

webhat Jul 3, 2023

Jay Cheroske Jul 3, 2023

@jerry If more people understood enshittification, more people would be using the various Fediverse platforms. Once you see it you can't unsee it.

🦬Jul 3, 2023

@jerry Not a member of infosec.exchange but since I'm part of Fedia I've been subscribed since I migrated there from Reddit.

Thanks for all you do!

Johnley Jul 3, 2023

@jerry done and set as recurring on ko-fi

Rep Rap Ryn :3 Jul 3, 2023

@jerry I do this for @fosstodon . Couple of bucks a month. I am not against helping out the networks I'm part of. Open source projects need cash to keep going.

Light-years better than 11 dollars a month to be called slurs and subsidize a man child and his creditors.

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 3, 2023

@reprapryn yep: @fosstodon is the right place for you to support.

gerontion Jul 3, 2023

@jerry that's certainly a hot take of mine but I think that if Twitter migrations caps at a certain size, it is probable that donations remain a sustainable model of keeping Mastodon alive and quality of communication to remain authentic and high. See https://infosec.exchange/@gerontion/110651373916468298

gerontion (@[email protected])

Hot take: I don't think that donations are a sustainable model for many use cases, especially like Mastodon being Twitter replacement. But I also think that M does not have to be T replacement. Neither do I think that Lemmy or Kbin should be replacements for Reddit. If a sufficient number of specialized population currently platformed at Twitter or (especially) Reddit could switch, it wouldn't reach the size where platforms need to earn enormous ad revenue to keep themselves afloat and it also could keep the cat posters and alike out of this place, deep down in the Facebook wasteland or Twitter toxic pool. That would solve the revenue problem and prevent internal degradation as well.

Infosec Exchange

Armetron Jul 3, 2023

@jerry what kinds of costs go into maintaining an instance? As more and more people join how much does the cost increase? Is there a specific viewable number that (with current usage this month would need x donations)?

I apologize if this is sensitive data that shouldn't be shared. I am genuinely curious.

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 3, 2023

@Armetron
For many, the increases are not gradual, but rather step function increases in costs, and the amount will vary based on the instance and how they host their infrastructure. For Infosec.exchange, new servers range from $50 to $100 per month each and we have to add another one for about every 2000 active users.

Then there is the CDN. I pay about $300 per month for the service, but it is consumption based.

All told. I would say the costs are about $0.10 per month per active account, but there are many things that can influence it - and also recognize that only about 1/2 of 1% of active accounts make donations.

Armetron Jul 3, 2023

@jerry Thank you for taking the time to answer. Looking forward to future updates / info

@jerry @Armetron

For a site like infosec.exchange & infosec.town, would an ARM64 VM help offset these costs? I know cloud providers like Hetzner is providing much cheaper option if one opts for their brand new CAX line of Ampere Altra Q80-30 based VMs. You can get many cores for a lot less than the x86 counterparts...

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 21, 2023

@deltatux @Armetron I’ve found that the IO throughput on VMs is a bit hindrance to performance, and the comparable cost between vcpus and regular bare metal is very disproportionate, particularly with Hetzner. They do have a bare metal 80 core arm offering, which I’ll try some day.

I would definitely like to find alternate providers, though I think I am slowing getting to the point where I’m looking at needing to colo a high density blade server in a few datacenters around the world

@jerry @Armetron ah, that makes sense. Ya if the cost of bare metal is comparable to their cloud offerings, the bare metal would make sense in terms of performance for sure.

I heard some people said Scaleway apparently is pretty good when it comes to pricing. Another one is Kimsufi which seems to be OVH's "discount" brand... Maybe worth a look?

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 21, 2023

@deltatux @Armetron definitely worth a look. Thank you

CynthesisToday Jul 7, 2023

@Armetron @jerry

This is the latest quarterly report for SFBA.social. It has details and available through a community hub found on the about page.

https://hub.sfba.social/2023/04/15/transparency-report-march-2023/

Transparency Report (March 2023) – SFBA COMMUNITY HUB

CynthesisToday Jul 7, 2023

@Armetron @jerry

Also, even more details about #Mastondon as incorporated in Germany: https://joinmastodon.org/reports/Mastodon%20Annual%20Report%202021.pdf

I couldn't find a 2022 Mastodon Annual Report.

Found the above through this more explanatory article about making the #Fediverse sustainable: https://techpolicy.press/priorities-to-make-the-fediverse-sustainable/

I'm really glad to see more admins raise attention to funding.

Wouter Hindriks Jul 3, 2023

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 3, 2023

@Sikorsky78 you are awesome!! thank you

Wouter Hindriks Jul 3, 2023

@jerry you're the one doing all the work, glad I can help a little!

Alan Jul 4, 2023

@jerry done, and thank you!

Surya Kuppuswamy Jul 4, 2023

@jerry - Switched from Patreon to Ko-Fi. Thanks for all you do for us. All the best!

Andre Jul 5, 2023

At some point.. Monetization always becomes an issue. I wrote a long post a while back, but, the tldr is I think it's important to have a credible non-profit structure for large corporate donors, a voting type body with a constitution that enforces minimum viable behaviors, which creates a reliable funding vehicle for large hosters.. To prevent a large corporation with millions of users federating and blowing away everyones budgets and ruining it all. Which now seems to be imminent.

DJDarren Jul 7, 2023

@jerry I first joined Twitter back in 2008, and finally canned it for good in January, when they blocked Tweetbot.

In those 15 years I never once knowingly gave them a single penny of my money.

Meanwhile, I've been on this instance since a week after I joined Mastodon, and have been paying €3 a month to help with the running costs ever since.

Funny how it goes, isn't it?

Wizard Bear (💉x8 + 😷)Jul 7, 2023

@jerry This is all true and why I continue to donate to my instance. This is a very friendly place and we need to support the admins/moderators/infrastructure that keep it running. TY. H/T to @stux here at mstdn.social

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 7, 2023

@WizardBear thank you. We need to support great admins like @stux

stux⚡️Jul 7, 2023

@jerry @WizardBear

cat_hug_triangle

that means the world!

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 7, 2023

@stux @WizardBear we are lucky to have you on the fediverse, Stux. We are all human (well, you’re a cat and I’m a llama, but you know what I mean).

Wizard Bear (💉x8 + 😷)Jul 7, 2023

@jerry @stux Well, I guess I'm a gently flowing lava field then...Sincerely Stux, you are a great asset here. TY again.

dandels Jul 7, 2023

@jerry @stux @WizardBear sends angry electrical signals through roots

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦Jul 7, 2023

@dandels @jerry @stux @WizardBear somebody said "cat"?

Filip 🌱 🦀Jul 7, 2023

@jerry @stux @WizardBear huge shout-out to both of you, Stux and Jerry! I am very proud and thankful to have met you both on this wonderful platform! Alongside all the other countless awesome people here!

May we always federate together!

Mason Chaste Jul 7, 2023

@stux more than happy to support you — this is my alt account but still means a lot that it is here

Kevin Jul 7, 2023

@jerry how do I know who is the owner of mine?

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 7, 2023

@notanonymous26 thanks for asking - you can find info on your about page here: https://fosstodon.org/about with details on how to support them.

Fosstodon

Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.

Mastodon hosted on fosstodon.org

bison ✅Jul 7, 2023

@jerry you made me finally going to patreon and giving 1€ to @Mastodon
12€/year (~10€ when paying support annually) for a social media service that doesn't suck is actually a pretty good deal.

https://media.giphy.com/media/DcoiFG6PQCnLi/giphy.gif

#patreon #mastodon #idomypart

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Discover & share this Parody GIF with everyone you know. GIPHY is how you search, share, discover, and create GIFs.

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Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jul 7, 2023

@bison thank you. Mastodon.social takes a LOT to run, and i know they will appreciate it @Mastodon

Nona #DarkGranny Jul 7, 2023

@jerry I set up a recurring donation to my server's admin - that's a simple way to do it (if you can afford to, of course)

MichaelCabus Jul 8, 2023

@jerry I’m on it ;)

Mikalai Nov 10, 2023

@jerry
How about instead of "That is why I am asking, if you are able, please consider donating to the instance you on to help keep the fediverse ecosystem going."
We start saying "If you find it useful, pleasing, etc., please consider giving us to the instance you on to help keep the fediverse ecosystem going."

Stop sounding like charity that is unrelated to me. Remind the good things you did to me.

@jerry in addition: donating to neighboring instances (often single-user or very small) is also a good deed

John Vaccaro (johniac)Jan 5, 2024

@jerry Expenses in the Internet world are proportional to a site's popularity. The fediverse helps stop this cycle by spreading users amongst many peer nodes.

I'd like to see a Philanthropy set up a system of recurring grants to help fund the Fediverse's operation and expansion. Something like _The Corporation for the Public Fediverse_. This organization could chase big donors with the credibility of a proper organization, ie Governing Council, Constitution, etc.

No government involvement!

Nigel Jan 5, 2024

Great post, good reminder.

Just made me think though: what is not transparent to many users, is how effectively their donations are being used. For example I know mastodon.nz runs (along with the other services they offer) on their own pair of physical servers in a colo datacentre, and while initially funded by those that set up the instance, the donations now do cover the expenses and the costs are basically covered for a couple of years (pending replacing failed hardware etc, which would halve that)

If mastodon.nz was using the hosting setup that I know another NZ server is on, it could run for a couple of months with their expenses and then the plug would be pulled due to running out of cashflow.

I realise not every instance admin has the access nor capability to optimize this though, even just based on their location, so how someone runs a server is often more important (funds allowing).

Was just something I had been thinking about, and your post reminded me of.

skryking Jan 6, 2024

@jerry I got a raise at work so I increased mine. I spend way more time here than anywhere else online. Thanks for all you do and put up with.

Jerry 🦙💝🦙Jan 6, 2024

@skryking congratulations on the raise! Well deserved, I’m sure. And thank you for supporting our slice of the fediverse