Craig GrannellIt’s starting to really get to me in the UK how many people are furiously angry about the prospect of more solar on fields when *many actual farmers* are enthusing about how great mixed-use fields can be. (Solar can shade animals and plants. In many cases, it can also be combined with rainfall capture. It’s about making better use of some land, not replacing one thing with another.)
David Cohen@craiggrannell We should offer them a nuclear power station on the fields as an alternative…
@davidbcohen Our MP for a very short time (Truss govt) was in charge of this stuff. From what I can tell, he put more effort than anything into blocking local solar farms his house might overlook. That sums up the NIMBYs really.
emmatonkin@craiggrannell @davidbcohen
I really don't get why it bothers people. But then again I think wind turbines look nice. Managed to enjoy the New Forest for many years with overhead power lines, too - being ignorant forest folk, we just saw the pylons as landmarks back before OFGEM and the visual impact provision project told us they were supposed to be viewed as eyesores.
I really don't get why it bothers people. But then again I think wind turbines look nice. Managed to enjoy the New Forest for many years with overhead power lines, too - being ignorant forest folk, we just saw the pylons as landmarks back before OFGEM and the visual impact provision project told us they were supposed to be viewed as eyesores.
Mark Slater@emmatonkin @craiggrannell @davidbcohen Wind turbines are great. I believe people moaned about electricity pylons when they first appeared, and their brains now mentally edit them out of the view.
They’d rather have coal fired power stations spewing smoke, as long as it’s elsewhere and someone else’s problem. Fuck them - it’s for things like this we need government to take the lead.
@emmatonkin @davidbcohen I like them too. Masts are less nice. Although I imagine when you tell everyone they couldn’t have mobile connectivity they grudgingly accept.
@craiggrannell @davidbcohen
This is true, masts aren't architecturally beautiful. But it could be argued that they beat the obvious alternatives (not having network at all, or having a night sky full of billionaire droppings)!
This is true, masts aren't architecturally beautiful. But it could be argued that they beat the obvious alternatives (not having network at all, or having a night sky full of billionaire droppings)!
ex or current IDF unwelcome@JohnLoader6 @craiggrannell @davidbcohen
Nice! Funny thing though, I looked these up online and the first link I got was the Telegraph moaning "noisy new net zero pylons are marching across the countryside – and the locals are not happy". Apparently they "are noisier than their predecessors, interfere with WiFi and damage the value of homes" (and the Telegraph is also upset that they are Made In China). You just cannot win with infrastructural stuff :-)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/west-country/hinkley-t-pylon-somerset-net-zero-house-prices/
Billy Smith@emmatonkin @craiggrannell @davidbcohen
The same complaints about land-based wind turbines that you hear in the UK right now, were used in the 1600's when they were installing windmills in Holland. :D
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Have you heard about much more efficient #bladeless #WindTurbines, e.g. from the #Spanish company #Vortex?
@HistoPol @emmatonkin @craiggrannell @davidbcohen
Nice design :D
I'll go digging through the spec sheets later. :D
@BillySmith
Let me know what you think afterwards, if you like.
@HistoPol @BillySmith @craiggrannell @davidbcohen
I love the look of them. They look like the sort of thing future archaeologists will unearth and gaze at for a considerable amount of time before claiming in a loud and confident tone of voice that they must have been the subject of some form of worship.
I love the look of them. They look like the sort of thing future archaeologists will unearth and gaze at for a considerable amount of time before claiming in a loud and confident tone of voice that they must have been the subject of some form of worship.
LOL.
They do look like church towers, don't they?
So you are into archeology as well?
Much better (and smaller) than the conventional ones, though.
@emmatonkin @craiggrannell @davidbcohen living in the country we have local overhead feeds but the house feed was converted from three wires to a cable so it is less noticable. Though it often means the meter is at least 8 feet off the floor so you need a ladder to read it
@JohnLoader6 @craiggrannell @davidbcohen
Oh gosh, while that's sensible visually, I'm glad they didn’t do that for my parents, I can just imagine my mum climbing up to read the meter and discovering wasps or hornets in the thatch :) I can't say I'm not happy about the reduction in "tree brings down power line" scenarios that results from burying local power lines, but when it comes to the high voltage stuff - especially in less touristy areas - it seemed like a very weird choice of priority.
Oh gosh, while that's sensible visually, I'm glad they didn’t do that for my parents, I can just imagine my mum climbing up to read the meter and discovering wasps or hornets in the thatch :) I can't say I'm not happy about the reduction in "tree brings down power line" scenarios that results from burying local power lines, but when it comes to the high voltage stuff - especially in less touristy areas - it seemed like a very weird choice of priority.
BashStKid@craiggrannell
Also an opportunity to cut some farm input costs by generating own power for lighting, heating, and fuel. Probably the only bit of food price inflation we can affect.
I would say I’m much more in favour of locally or consumer-owned cooperatives owning the solar and also benefiting directly from the cheaper electricity, rather than anonymous distant companies who pass no benefits onto anybody.
@BashStKid Mm. There’s no imagination. We should be putting solar everywhere. Every new build. Every commercial building with a flat roof. Local co-ops. Wherever else we can. Aggressively ramp up wind and tidal too and see where that gets us. But no. (Even in the town where I live, which is quite affluent, home rooftop solar is very rare.)
@craiggrannell
The biggest help in that direction would be to exclude the solar improvement from the rateable value.
Right now, any saving from installing solar is more than taken away by the business rateable value increase from HMRC. Wouldn’t be surprised if the next round of council tax revaluations put houses with solar up into the next band so that everyone is demotivated.
The biggest help in that direction would be to exclude the solar improvement from the rateable value.
Right now, any saving from installing solar is more than taken away by the business rateable value increase from HMRC. Wouldn’t be surprised if the next round of council tax revaluations put houses with solar up into the next band so that everyone is demotivated.
🕹️🕹️🕹️8/16/32bit 🕹️🕹️🕹️@craiggrannell it's "NIMBY"-ism at its worst.
They all want "clean" energy, just not generated near them. Same as with windfarms. Or mobile phone masts, etc.
@81732bit And houses. We’ve had a decade-long fight locally. The (LD+local coalition) council plans to build a new town. It’s the only way to get infrastructure. But Tories in the villages are fuming and push back. Natch, they want more housing. But they’d rather it was bolted on to existing towns – which of course would not get new infra from that.
@craiggrannell would that be existing towns that are located further away from their quaint villages than the proposed new town, perchance?
@81732bit Indeed. And they’d preferably like housing estates on the other side of the towns so they don’t grow towards their little villages.
@craiggrannell ah, the classic rural Tory.
Gary Parker@craiggrannell WE DON’T LIKE CHANGE! 😏
Jens Jäger@craiggrannell When have facts ever mattered in political debates about climate change anywhere?
Tom Jacob@craiggrannell I thought plants liked the sun. They are a bit solar themselves…
@tomjacob They like daylight. They’re less keen on being fried to a crisp during the UK’s increasingly common short but fierce heatwaves and long periods with little to no rainfall. Farmers have long noted that giving plants some respite from such harsh conditions increases yields. Solar has little negative impact on quite a few crops.
SamuelJohnson@craiggrannell It's odd indeed, when, as in this case, the installation is only visible from the air
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0429/1295115-solar-farm/
Fardels BearWe have an obsession with the picturesque, as defined by 18th century landscape paintings. These views were often highly artificial. Behind every Capability Brown landscape there were messy little working villages razed to enhance the landowner's view.
Now people complain about the elegant forms of wind turbines, while having nothing to say about the blight of electricity pylons.
Richard Knott@craiggrannell and you can, they are doing it in France:
RobCorneliusGammons say solar panels and wind turbines spoil the view. Have they not seen a coal fired or nuclear power station before?
Essjay (she / her) 🏳️🌈@robcornelius I think they’re quite happy about those – as long as they’re built FAR away from where they live.
@craiggrannell won't somebody think of the property prices....
@craiggrannell The UK "government" effectively banned on shore wind farms and really hates solar panel fields. Its owned by extraction industries.
billheywood@craiggrannell
The same people never complain about fields covered in black plastic
Solar + agriculture is a great match
John Caveney woke is me🛠️@craiggrannell solar is probably not too great in the U.K. until global warming really takes off, but wind farms are really well fed by our weather!! There’s a massive solar farm just inside the Welsh border as you come off the M56 and head towards Connahs Quay! It’s huge and on land that’s otherwise not any good for crops but hasn’t really affected the wildlife either. Not too sure how much power it generates.
@jaycee Solar’s not a year-round win, but it’s solid during BST and OK or a month either side. The only times our installation was crap was Dec/Jan, where it generated naff-all. (Newer panels care about daylight rather than needing blazing sun.)
@craiggrannell cheers, we learn new things every day! 👍
Simon@jaycee @craiggrannell our rooftop solar generates enough electricity to power our house, charge my car, and put 300kWh into the grid May-July. In April, August, & September it provides enough to power the house, but not charge the car. October- March is very weather dependent but we do actually use the grid to power our house sometimes.
The UK really does get plenty of sunlight.
@craiggrannell @Simian60 every day is a school day! 👍
ben moretti@craiggrannell agrivoltaics is big in France and China. Seeing a lot of it here in australia especially inter cropping and use for remote property power with batteries. Can be elevated with pasture and sheep, run water pumps, etc. admittedly we have more sunlight than much of UK
LR@craiggrannell they who hath dunning-krugers defending his case, need no enemies
Jon Park@craiggrannell I was very pleased to see that Ripple considered that when they announced their solar park.
It’s on low-quality grazing land that'll still be used for sheep. But they also mention how it'll be improved to promote biodiversity (I like the sound of a “bee bank”) whilst still generating energy.
https://rippleenergy.com/our-projects/derril-water-solar-park
Nicole ParsonsIt's also funded malign influence campaigns by the oil industry.
Conservative parties everywhere rely on campaign donations from a fossil fuel industry desperately spending billions to thwart renewable energy.
They want to keep their captive consumer markets in the UK, so they fund disinformation campaigns about green energy.
Wind & solar on agricultural land gives farmers a reliable secondary source of income. Banks can't foreclose when farmer's incomes stabilize.
Advanced Persistent Teapot@craiggrannell "but it looks ugly" ma'am have you seen a motorway? Those things are hideous but you aren't complaining about those
I am very glad that at least in one country in the Global North the discussion has been brought to the farmers and the general public.
Most people are ignorant about the solutions that could have been realized decades ago: #agrivoltaics.
Do you have any links to articles etc. written by UK farmers by any chance?
WylieCoyoteUK 
@craiggrannell The most vociferous objectors seem to be complaining about spoiling the view.
Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈@craiggrannell I see the cattle have been outraged by something trivial again, whipped up into a fury by the Oligarch press, but at least Migrants and Trans people are getting a break for once.
Clown island. 🤡
Clown island. 🤡
nickapos@craiggrannell yeah you can grow crops between panels. I have also seen vineyards under solar panels.
Kelvin n0mql EN35ld
Ross Burton@craiggrannell I live near the Sunnica solar farm proposal north of Cambridge. Utterly infuriating how all the rich villages have STOP SUNNICA signs everywhere. Tempted to photoshop how the fields would look with a coal plant on...
David Cantrell 🏏@craiggrannell but don't you understand that your field exists so that I can look at it and think it's pretty?
beforewisdom 
Why are some UK people angry about it? Ignorance + high food prices?
@beforewisdom get the feeling British people are just exhausted, in the main. Beaten down by 13 years of Tory rule.
VHaschI'm not saying people are mentally lazy, but there are a whole lot of people who expect someone to tell them what to be mad about. 🤷♀️
ashley@craiggrannell @gannet it *can* be great on farmland. it seemingly more often than not isn’t.
sheislaurence@craiggrannell Here is some really interesting study in #Japan where they are pushing for #agrivoltaics #solarsharing (via the #climaterealityproject) . They calculated that 10% coverage of agricultural lands would provide for 37% of #energy needs. https://climaterealityjapan.org/01/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/EN_Agrivoltaics-Pamphlet_CRPJapan.pdf