Mastodawn

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/1685

legraLeGra Jun 27, 2023

@clive

Some links to the E-BIKE Act in your next writing please. :) :) :)

@atthenius

Yes!

Michele Tepper Jun 27, 2023

@clive and end the cap on the number of e-bikes in the Citibike program!

Clive Thompson Jun 29, 2023

@michelet

Yessssss

Pusher Of Pixels (old account)Jun 27, 2023

@clive I've read that insurance on ebikes is astronomical due to how easy the batteries are to steal. They're small and portable and obvs aren't protected by much of an enclosure.

legumancer Davy Jun 27, 2023

@pixelpusher220 @clive there are some designs where the rider can easily pop the battery off and stick it in a purse or backpack when locking up, which helps some.

voltaic Jun 27, 2023

@legumancer @pixelpusher220 @clive my bike battery locks into the frame with a key! it goes right ➡️ for lock then another turn ➡️ for "on". Unlocked it slides right out and can put in backpack. Lots of good designs out there

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/renters-insurance/does-renters-insurance-cover-theft/

Evan Jun 27, 2023

@pixelpusher220 @clive Many renter’s and homeowner’s insurance policies cover theft of property such as bicycles even outside the home. The only issue is that the deductible on those policies may be high, so I’d just check on that before relying on home insurance for bicycle coverage

Does Renters Insurance Cover Theft?

Having something stolen from you is a pretty crummy feeling. Paying to replace the stolen item can feel even worse. The average value of property taken during larceny-theft is $1,162, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program. You’re most likely to have your personal property stolen from your car. About 27% of larceny-theft is […]

Forbes

Pusher Of Pixels (old account)Jun 27, 2023

@odd @clive what if read was that the combination of ebikes being fairly new and the ease of battery removal makes a higher likelihood of theft and therefore higher rates.

Sure ppl can remove and take with them, but 5-8 lbs gets heavy pretty quick. Could easily see ppl not being diligent about it over time

Kaz Jun 28, 2023

@pixelpusher220 I have an insurance plan for my e-bike (because e-bikes are typically excluded from renters and homeowners policies) and it's $130 a year? Mine's a cheap bike so the premium might be higher for a quality one, but hardly astronomical.

Christopher Schmidt Jun 28, 2023

@pixelpusher220 @clive Insurance on ebikes is not astronomical, and stealing batteries is not common in most places.

Pusher Of Pixels (old account)Jun 28, 2023

@crschmidt @clive

I appreciate your personal insights, I can't find the original link I read unfortunately. This is one from the Netherlands with a significant increase in thefts over a previous year. https://insideevs.com/news/632517/ebike-battery-theft-issue-netherlands/

E-Bike Battery Theft A Growing Concern In The Netherlands

In the Netherlands, e-bike battery theft has spiked by 300 percent in 2022, raising alarms surrounding the security of e-bike tech.

InsideEVs

Christopher Schmidt Jun 29, 2023

@pixelpusher220 @clive Yeah, I think that this is mostly a "there are a lot more ebikes now." With more than 5M ebikes in the country, 4500 battery thefts is a rate of < 1 in 1000 on an annual basis. My town of 120k people has around 400 bike thefts/year; even if we assume one bike per person, that's a rate 4x higher.

Like with all new things, "There's a lot more of them so they increase in statistics and we can write stories" is more the vibe I get there.

Christopher Schmidt Jun 29, 2023

@pixelpusher220 @clive Homeowner's insurance didn't care whether the bike is an ebike or not; they insure my stuff, and my bikes are included (even away from home). Bike-specific insurance didn't care either -- that was just priced based on the replacement value and where I live, as far as I could tell. So while the insurance claim may exist somewhere, it's not a thing that I think is universal (and possibly not even common).

Allan Chow Jun 27, 2023

@clive I'd be super interested in car accident statistics and other potential correlations to a decrease in 100k car miles

@grumpasaurus

Me too!

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Jun 27, 2023

@clive What's the weather like in Denver?

Lucy B Jun 27, 2023

@anne_twain @clive why are you concerned about the weather? If it rains then wear a raincoat, it's far more practical than using your car as a coat.

Most weather concerns about cycling are actually infrastructure problems. Many countries with rain, wind, ice and snow manage to have plenty of cyclists just fine with the right infra.

Study after study has shown that what actually puts people off cycling are motor vehicles.

Lucy B Jun 27, 2023

@anne_twain @clive it's not just Denver who are trying this. Paris has a bangers for bikes scheme that seems to be working well too.

voltaic Jun 27, 2023

@linuxlucy @anne_twain @clive great to hear but european cities in general just have better public infrastructure than a lot of the US. Not surprised it extends to bikes too

@linuxlucy @anne_twain

I cycle year-round in NYC, though we don't in practice have a ton of super-snowy days

Even with snow, though, you're quite right @linuxlucy that infrastructure -- and the maintenance thereof -- makes all the difference

If there's a big dump of snow in NYC but it's quickly ploughed, I can easily cycle it

@clive @linuxlucy @anne_twain NYC is having serious issues with fires started by the batteries used for e-bikes (free link). https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/21/nyregion/e-bike-lithium-battery-fires-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=wo5yuiLnzIs3SVe1I5hAWhJMzFghMnaJ-KMsZ244U69GnDEd1IDY29BlbcUbFmEYmi6VRev7ylxT3aOZBCiP7GQiWAr3a2VEERY0ot7Ue0EpBOQuoYR_GBSfN8HkHxadN0bprYInPCCyP3ZbQL8qnPhIx0pmPiSXlh2tZZkvHccNdyL-JMeYX2J0LGJYTOhxCA6M9BKm1X98OpP510SNoueA-xKpqSt5XyJWZLxs9ymcX6CNC4CyBkqoLLsc52js0KwHjDE0a0uuF2DELSlMRzYAF3wKTYNiveo7b2KsBTyiCPEstHQsSeXYTZ0duugJ16n_pGYtUGhjI62FUITCvY3tOs9k4q2tQw2GMA&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

How E-Bike Battery Fires Became a Deadly Crisis in New York City

City leaders are racing to regulate battery-powered mobility devices, which have been the source of over 100 fires so far this year.

The New York Times

@Chimaera @clive @anne_twain that's horrible and I would say that more regulation and enforcement is needed (I'm only guessing at the underlying causes, but many other countries don't have this issue).

It's worth putting it into context though, New York also has serious issues with air pollution, climate change and motor vehicles, which are responsible for far more deaths. Getting more cycles, of all types, onto the roads now will provide a far greater overall benefit.

@linuxlucy @clive @anne_twain I agree with you completely. I just worry about the victims of these fires which seem to result from a lack of regulations/enforcement. It will need to be addressed. It could lead some people to be afraid to purchase one.

@linuxlucy @clive @anne_twain it’s happening in London as well

@Chimaera @clive @anne_twain yes, but I'm not sure how this relates to the Denver scheme. Bringing up the issue of illegal ebikes (which is usually what these things are) now seems more like scaremongering rather than a good faith discussion 🤔

@linuxlucy @clive @anne_twain you have people responding here from all parts of the world. Paris is mentioned in other comments. I believe the person who posted this lives in NYC. And I do as well. Why would you jump to accusing me of bringing this up in bad faith? It’s an issue that’s relevant to my life and my city and the city of the person who began this discussion.

@Chimaera @clive @anne_twain because the OP was talking about Denver and because whenever increasing cycling is talked about there's an overwhelming amount of "whataboutery" in response, by people intent on trolling and who otherwise don't give a shit about saving lives.

We have an increasing number of ebikes in my city too, some are dangerous, but none are as dangerous as cars, so they should be welcomed IMO.

@linuxlucy @clive @anne_twain The building fire in that photo (four people died) I shared in my previous post happened in my neighborhood. My city council rep Marte (just re-elected) is proposing a bill to offer a city funded trade-in program to get these batteries off the streets. And my senator Gillibrand is proposing federal funding to install charging stations in NYCHA housing (to get these chargers out of the apartments). https://pix11.com/news/politics/pixonpolitics/on-the-record-city-councilman-chris-marte-talks-e-bike-fires/ #ebikes

On the Record: City Councilman Chris Marte talks e-bike fires

NEW YORK (PIX11) – Earlier this week, another fire caused by an exploding e-bike battery claimed the lives of four New Yorkers. The fire started just after midnight Tuesday at an e-bike shop on the Lower East Side. It spread quickly to the apartments above. Four people were killed and two more were critically injured. […]

PIX11

jnbhlr Jun 28, 2023

@Chimaera @linuxlucy @clive @anne_twain I would be interested in data regarding paris as it's inside the eu where I live and quite often that enormous burocreacy is actually working to better peoples lives, so my guess would be that regulation here is better. Illegal stuff can still be used obviously.

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Jun 28, 2023

@linuxlucy @Chimaera @clive Could I please not be tagged in this conversation? I don't ride a bicycle and I live in Australia. Ta.

@anne_twain sorry! I'm going to block them shortly if they continue, and would recommend you do the same if they don't listen

@linuxlucy @anne_twain I’ll save you the effort

@[email protected] @[email protected] both of you joined in 11/22 and brought that Twitter vibe with you 🙃

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Jun 28, 2023

@linuxlucy Thank you.

Christopher Schmidt Jun 28, 2023

@Chimaera @clive @linuxlucy @anne_twain NYC's ebike battery problem is somewhat of a new york specific problem, driven by heavy use of no-name, low-quality batteries by low-income delivery workers. Each of the deaths is a tragedy, but there's very little evidence of significant fire risk from batteries from reputable consumer brands.

Ebike subsidies ensure that consumers can afford to purchase more reputable bikes, rather than cheap, low-quality alternatives.

@crschmidt that's a far more eloquent response than mine. Thank you 😊

GailNYC Jul 1, 2023

@crschmidt @Chimaera @clive @linuxlucy @anne_twain Christopher, what you say is true, but many apartment buildings in nyc are banning e-bikes due to the fire risk. When I asked my building’s coop board to consider banning only dangerous e-bikes, they told me that would be too difficult to enforce and that banning all of them would be the safest option. Front page articles like this only bolster their claim.

legumancer Davy Jun 27, 2023

@anne_twain @clive having bike commuted in the lake effect snow area, proper snow clearing on roads and bike lanes is really important for winter cycling. Unfortunately a lot of places plow the snow onto bike lanes, crosswalk entrances and sometimes even sidewalks which is a big problem for cyclists, pedestrians and wheelchair users. I switched to walking or car on bad snow and ice days because the city's plows were careless.

For rain, capes/ponchos are a good design since they tend to shelter your legs too. Good fenders are critical for a commuting bike in my opinion. In Rochester I usually had some kind of outerwear that would stop unexpected rain from soaking all the way through in the time it took to get home, but without fenders I would've had street water splashed all up my back. I'd learned that the hard way as a kid, so I added fenders to my commuting bike as soon as I got it.

@legumancer @anne_twain

Yes to all this!

Carl M. Johnson Jun 27, 2023

@clive I think the thing people who live in suburbs miss is that in a city, cars are super slow. You can bike faster than a car in a regular bike, forget e-bikes. But hills are a huge pain and without a dedicated lane, it’s uncomfortably dangerous. Having e-bike subsidies could tilt the balance so the intracity traffic becomes more bike based and therefore less congested, less polluted, etc.

Morgan ⚧️Jun 27, 2023

@carlmjohnson @clive hell I live in a very small city and even so the e-bikes wouldn't be much slower than a car
If I could get a trike with electric assist I'd take it everywhere

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radtrike-electric-tricycle

J Stewart Jun 27, 2023

@raphaelmorgan @carlmjohnson @clive Rad Power makes an electric assist trike.

RadTrike™ Electric Tricycle

@jdstewart2008 @raphaelmorgan @carlmjohnson

Yep -- I got a chance to try riding one when they launched that line!

They were pretty fun!

Morgan ⚧️Jun 28, 2023

@jdstewart2008 @carlmjohnson @clive oh, cool! /gen
but let me rephrase: if I could *afford* one (or get it with one of these subsidies) I'd take it everywhere 😅
maybe someday... that price isn't unreasonable or anything I just can't really afford to spend that much on a one-person vehicle especially with how easy they are to steal

@raphaelmorgan @jdstewart2008 @carlmjohnson

True true

@carlmjohnson

Very true -- cars mostly don't move very fast all in NYC and Brooklyn where I cycle

Jason Petersen (he)Jun 27, 2023

@clive I live there and have seen people from all walks of life, professions, areas of the city with them and any time I ask about it they are SO gushing about the program. It would be a no-brainer on voter goodwill alone, it’s so popular.

Basically any time someone tries one they’re sold on it.

@jason

Yeah, that's mostly what I've seen with ebikes

Folks who are on the fence and try them tend to be pretty impressed

Kris Samsel Jun 27, 2023

@clive I hear ya! No rebate. Lots of enjoyment! ☮️

@humansriseup

Nice!

JB Jun 27, 2023

@clive My partner and I scooped up 2 e-bikes from this program! While it doesn't replace driving for us, they're regularly used in our household for transportation. Very supportive of these kinds of subsidies for other areas.

@0ddfish

Yep yep -- they can't replace all rides in cars or trucks ... but they can be useful in quite a few situations

toxtethogrady Jun 27, 2023

@clive e-bikes are great, but the willy-nilly distribution of these things at street corners and bus stops is more bane than boon. Bike-sharing really needs to be managed better...

Rob Galanakis Jun 27, 2023

@toxtethogrady @clive there's little that can realistically be improved without reducing the space and subsidy given to cars. I'm sympathetic to the argument but be aware of priorities and impact. Complaining about "willy nilly distribution" of bikes is like complaining about the color of the life preserver while you're drowning.

@toxtethogrady

Yeah, the "dockless" ebike-share programs can be quite messy

Personally-owned ebikes are less of an issue, because the owners lock them up and/or take them inside

Steve Torrente Jun 27, 2023

@clive Related news: RTD zero fare is back this summer for July and August. So even if you didn't get a new e-bike, you don't have to drive.
https://www.rtd-denver.com/zerofare

Zero Fare

RTD - Denver

@theLastTheorist

Aha, right on

Clare Harris 🍁Jun 27, 2023

@clive

I appreciate this effort! Thanks!