Aaron Dragushan
Isaac FreemanThe worst thing that ever happened in software engineering was when Kirk asked Scotty how long something would take and Scotty said thirty minutes and Kirk said you’ve got five and Scotty got it done in five and impressionable children watched this and grew up to become managers.
Zeborah@isaacfreeman I appreciated how annoyed Geordi LaForge was about that too.
James Basoo@zeborah @isaacfreeman That episode is why I inflate my estimates 😆
Dante Mercurio@Jbasoo @zeborah @isaacfreeman "We should be able to make an attempt by tomorrow."
"I want it ready by the end of the day."
"No Captain. When I say 'tomorrow', I mean tomorrow. I don't exaggerate."
- B'Elanna Torres and Kathryn Janeway
Jutta Wagner
gunstick@gunstick @zeborah @isaacfreeman depends on the task, if it's something I'm familiar with then I give a pretty accurate estimate but for something I'm not then I usually give an increased worst case scenario estimate.
rhempel@isaacfreeman @Jbasoo @gunstick @zeborah that technique has been around for decades, and here is how that goes ...
Break down a task into subtasks, estimate, then put best case / worst case windows on everything. Sum all the values and note that there is often a factor of two between the ranges. Take the average and hope for the best.
Watch in desperation as your careful, calculated plan falls to pieces when the first major unplanned event happens.
Repeat.
@rhempel @isaacfreeman @gunstick @zeborah Yep, that's generally what happens. Not to mention how carefully researched estimates are completely ignored in scheduling because the primary stakeholder has an arbitrary deadline and we "just have to get this done."
FiXato@zeborah @isaacfreeman relevant scene: https://youtu.be/8xRqXYsksFg
(though unfortunately cut a bit short...)
(though unfortunately cut a bit short...)
Listen to Scotty
Cyber Yuki
MichaelsMindOnline@FiXato @zeborah @isaacfreeman exactly the scene I was thinking of when I saw this post. Tell them twice as long so when you do it in half you are a miracle worker. Such a good scene.
ken Taylor@isaacfreeman
they also grew up to believe elon musk was a genius.
they also grew up to believe elon musk was a genius.
Justin Derrick@UnUtopianOptimist @isaacfreeman The difference is that Scotty delivered. Full Self Driving is still alternately a drunk 14 year old that’s only driven in video games, and a granny that can’t see much past the steering wheel… three years after it was promised and the robotaxi revolution was to begin.
Collette Lynner@UnUtopianOptimist @isaacfreeman the man did some outstanding things before he should have retired
Don Melton@isaacfreeman Can confirm. 💯
Cmdr_Halo_Jones@donmelton @isaacfreeman conversely it pays to have customers on side. We missed a Friday deadline, communicated why to the customer, and they were happy to wait for higher quality release the next week. Other managers might have ordered a crunch weekend. We got it out with no crunch after the two days off and within customer expectations.
SarcastiCat@Cmdr_Halo_Jones @donmelton @isaacfreeman To get there means the customer trusts the team. If you missed every deadline and your team wasn't seen to be trying to succeed, the story might be different.
@Plumbert @donmelton @isaacfreeman yeah, you're absolutely right. That's what I meant by having the customer on your side, you don't get that for free.
VHaschBut Scotty always knew to grossly exaggerate the time required. 😏
@VHasch This is the second worst thing that happened in software engineering. It works on TV because the plot requires it, but in real life it creates a feedback loop of mistrust from both sides that can destroy a whole organisation.
Paul H 🏴🇪🇺Oh yes - he knew the job would take 2 mins (flip a switch to the backup dilithium crystal), quote 30, take 5 then go for a 25 minute whisky break. The Laws of Physics are just guidelines
Stone Bear@isaacfreeman .... thus LaForge's reaction to Scotty's amazement that he told Picard how long it was _really_ gonna take...
Picard (and Riker) trust Geordi to hit his estimates bang-on - and Geordi will *tell them* when he has no idea...
"Eject the core!" "I just did..."
There's under-promise and over-deliver, and there's building trust between management and people...
Elk Test
hanscees@isaacfreeman but all managers know this only is valid with deflector shields
@hanscees I’m beginning to suspect that some are unclear on this important point.
Simon LucyWhat was cut from that was the 25 minutes Engineering had been working on preparing for that eventuality.
itemgoddess@isaacfreeman Stuck on a project where exactly this is happening!
@itemgoddess Sorry to hear that.
The worst of it is that I do kind of get why people end up managing this way, even when they do know it’s unlikely to work.
The thing is that nobody can actually estimate reliably how long software development will take, but everyone is expected to pretend that they can.
@itemgoddess @isaacfreeman oh I hope you find your way out soon.
AdonMadon@isaacfreeman I don't believe a manager has ever watched Star Trek, or anything that requires listening.
Kay 
@isaacfreeman and engineers grew up to know they should lie to unreasonable managers. Scotty only needed to flip a switch, the extra 4 minutes 50 seconds was to get a cup of coffee or nip of whisky
@Kay This is the case, and Scotty padding his estimates is the second worst thing that ever happened in software engineering.
@isaacfreeman I'm not an engineer, I'm ops with database admin role but I still have to respond to managers who want to know how long something will take.
I sometimes hint at the Timeliness vs Perfection equation - do you want it quick or done right?
@Kay For sure. I am of course being snarky. It’s frustrating for everyone that complex technical work can’t be estimated reliably. And nobody thinks they’re Kirk in this scenario, just someone in the middle who’s required to come up with a schedule.
@isaacfreeman and managers don't think they're being unreasonable when they ask how long something will take, but then they put it into a budget and base staff requirements on the speed needed to process X number of widgets without allowing anything for breaks, not perfect days, contingencies and all workers below manager level end up working unpaid extras to catch up with an impossible schedule ....
.
Dealing with this in my current contract. Risk of setting expectations into stone
.
Dealing with this in my current contract. Risk of setting expectations into stone
@Kay @isaacfreeman the fudge factor works for managers too.
Jon Wood@isaacfreeman That has to be watched in conjunction with the TNG episode in which he gets pulled out of a transporter to tell Geordie he should be padding his estimates.
Florian@isaacfreeman Good to see that within "lower decks" there is a complete episode dealing with exactly this issue. It shows how badly this works. Finally Brad Boimler pointed on the problem to the captain and it was solved with the "Boimler effect".
I always thought of Scotty as someone who puts in a massive amount of buffer time as a result of bad management.
#startrek #work #BoimlerEffect
I always thought of Scotty as someone who puts in a massive amount of buffer time as a result of bad management.
#startrek #work #BoimlerEffect
Nifty1A@isaacfreeman when I used to write test software, I always left the GUI until last, because I found that if I did it first, the boss would think the code was ready to go, even if there wasn't any behind it.
Adalwin@isaacfreeman I am sorry, manager, the speed of light is not a configurable variable.
@AdalwinAmillion @isaacfreeman yeah, and transfer speed of light as a physical law to todays politics who want to negociate the physical laws responsible for climate change.
They already wanted to negotiate with a virus. 🤦♂️
They already wanted to negotiate with a virus. 🤦♂️
ADHDel-DRAFT-v10-final (2).doc@isaacfreeman @Andrewhinton Fixing a starship is easier than software development.
Second Chance Bikes@isaacfreeman
managers who do that are fools. I have worked for several.
managers who do that are fools. I have worked for several.
rhythmjonesWatch the Scotty episode of TNG...
Gary Parker@isaacfreeman the correct response would have been “you can have it fast or good, pick one”
The extension being any two of: fast, cheap or good
John Meadows@isaacfreeman The first rule of IT management: “If I don’t understand it, it must be easy!”
Minski@isaacfreeman you didn't tell him how long it would REALLY take, did you???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3jXhmr_o9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3jXhmr_o9A
Managing Client Expectations, by Scotty
Shinydan@isaacfreeman there's a Lower Decks episode that deconstructs this, it's a giggle if you can get past the Rick/Morty style.
Richard Knott@isaacfreeman fortunately i grew up in the TNG era so always knew to multiple my estimates by 5 when taking to management 😋
Nicole Göbel
Star Trek: Lower Decks Season 1 Episode 3 Buffer Time
MichaelRemember that Scotty reprimanded Geordi for telling his captain how long a job would REALLY take.
Ankur Jain@isaacfreeman 🤣🤣 interesting observation
thomkennon@isaacfreeman
This is sooo good. R u cool if I cross post on the hellscape of corporate social, LinkedIn?
This is sooo good. R u cool if I cross post on the hellscape of corporate social, LinkedIn?
@thomkennon Hmmm… OK, but please don’t directly link to my LinkedIn profile. It’s meant as a general observation, and I don’t want it to be misinterpreted as a dig at my own workplace.
@isaacfreeman wow, cool, thx and totally get it! In fact, perhaps I black out your handle and image?
@isaacfreeman
I never in a million years would've imagined sharing a post from the horrid place of LI but here is my note, Isaac. Thanks for the inspiration, che.
@thomkennon Thanks! If I used LinkedIn regularly I’d be fine with being connected to it, as I’d be able to monitor and respond to any unintended interpretations. However, I go years between visits and I’m mindful that my profile there is linked from my employer’s public-facing website.