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privsecfoss Jun 19, 2023

IMHO XMPP / Jabber is the best Instant Messenger (IM) protocol

IMHO XMPP / Jabber is the best Instant Messenger (IM) protocol - Feddit.dk

It is battle tested, standardized, widely used, have open source servers and apps, end-to-end encryption (OMEMO), self-hostable and are low on ressources and more. I use it with family and friends. Conversations and blabber.im [http://blabber.im] on android and Gajim on Linux. There’s also apps for windows and Apple. Curious if anyone here use it and why, why not?

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Matija Šuklje Jun 19, 2023

@privsecfoss I would absolutely love to get back to #XMPP as my main (ideally only) IM, but in time some things made it hard to do so:

- it's extensible and not all clients support all modernly needed extensions - the #Jabber XEP solves this (on paper/standard level)
- loads of spam - again, tackled by Jabber XEP bundle and clients that fully implement it
- and ultimately, 90% of my contacts there never pop up anymore - network effect problem

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MattJ Jun 20, 2023

@hook
Extensibility is not a reason not to use XMPP.

It's true, not all XMPP software supports every feature. However we didn't all stop browsing the web because Internet Explorer 6 doesn't support HTML5 🙂

There is plenty of modern XMPP software to choose from, and if you don't want to choose, Snikket is a great place to start (in my humble opinion - I work on that project).
@privsecfoss

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Matija Šuklje

@mattj, you are totally right re extensibility & I probably worded that a bit awkwardly (I blame jetlag).

I guess my gist would be:
• XMPP is amazing, but also complex
• complexity ⇒ many clients
• small(ish) user base ⇒ not all clients support full Jabber XEP
• ⇒ choice paralysis or bad experience with first choice
• ⇒ user base stays small(ish)

🐔 & 🥚

IMHO to break out of it, we need critical mass (again).

( using #XMPP / #Jabber since 2010: https://matija.suklje.name/migrating-to-xmppjabber-and-aim-woes )

@privsecfoss

Migrating to XMPP/Jabber (and AIM woes)

Alright, so I've decided to finally drop proprietary IM protocols. To some extend because promoting free software and open standards while at the same using proprietary protocols of companies that don't respect your privacy is a bit, well, let's be honest, hypocritic. On the other hand though because I've increasingly …

Hook’s Humble Homepage

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MattJ Jun 20, 2023

@hook
I understand. Your points somewhat echo what's written at https://snikket.org/about/goals/ and https://snikket.org/blog/products-vs-protocols/ . I think we agree on many things.

I just get triggered when these problems turn into reasons not to take action. I migrated my family to XMPP and it's great. Others have done the same.

I didn't ask them to choose clients, I just sent them an invitation link to our self-hosted server. They didn't even need tech support signing up.

My message: don't give up 🙂
@privsecfoss

Snikket Goals

Overview Snikket is an ambitious project to build a new kind of XMPP-based messaging platform. Until now, the XMPP ecosystem has been very fragmented - a collection of projects with a mixture of different designs, terminologies and quality. Diversity is excellent, and the foundation of any healthy ecosystem. But we also need to have some amount of consistency. Snikket aims to provide this consistency, and provide a friendly entrance to the world of XMPP.

Snikket Chat

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Matija Šuklje Jun 20, 2023

@mattj, I guess you’re right.

I’m probably paralysed a bit due to my main XMPP server being (someone else’s) small instance that’s not very maintained (can’t blame them) and every time I log in I’m literally greeted with hundreds (thousands?) of spam invites and messages.

I should probably migrate to a more active server. Happy to pay/donate for it too.

(I moved my family to #Matrix, but would prefer #Jabber, esp. if self-hosting was easy enough for my weak-ass admin skills.)

@privsecfoss

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MattJ Jun 20, 2023

@hook
https://snikket.org/hosting/ is a paid (well, currently free while in beta 🤫) service that I work on.

There are other hosting options too: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_Hosting_Providers
@privsecfoss

Snikket Hosting

Snikket is a fully open-source personal messaging server that allows groups of people such as family, friends, clubs and small organisations to have their own private communication space. You can use our simple dashboard to launch Snikket instances for you in just a few minutes. It’s a great option if you’re just looking for a more privacy-friendly alternative to mainstream messengers such as Facebook, WhatsApp or Telegram, without any technical knowledge required.

Snikket Chat

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Matija Šuklje Jun 20, 2023

@mattj, thanks. Will look into it.

...still hoping for an XMPP renaissance.

@privsecfoss