Mastodawn

https://www.quippd.com/writing/2023/05/03/with-its-API-update-reddit-should-start-paying-its-users.html

yoasif Jun 17, 2023

@clive I've got an essay on this too, and I'd be floored if you read it (long, unfortunately).

PS: I'm also a moderator of a 150k+ subscriber subreddit.

With its API Update, Reddit Should Start Paying its Users (Or They Should Leave)

Reddit is one of the most popular social media sites on the web, with millions of users and communities dedicated to every topic imaginable. The platform is known for its user-generated content, with people sharing their thoughts, opinions, and experiences with the world. However, despite the value that user-generated content brings to Reddit, the platform does not currently compensate users for their contributions.

Youssuff Quips

@yoasif

Great essay!

It really wouldn’t be hard for Reddit to implement those opt-in/opt-out options you spec out later in the piece ….

yoasif Jun 17, 2023

@clive ❤️ Thank you for reading!

It wouldn't be hard, but I am not getting a good feeling about the way they are handling the API rollout for app developers - I'm not holding my breath for LLM options.

CynthesisToday Jun 17, 2023

@clive @yoasif

Yes, good work describing an ecosystem service for a #SocialEcosystem. #Reddit is an extractive social ecosystem. The #Fediverse is trying to be a thriving, sustainable social ecosystem without being extractive.

I've been trying to figure out what my share, in $$$ and/or labor, would need to be to make a #FediverseEcosystem work. Identifying ecosystem service types is important to figuring out how to make it sustainable while it grows.

@yoasif really good essay! Although, I too am not optimistic.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey Jun 18, 2023

@yoasif @clive

"Still, Reddit recognizes the valuable contributions that moderators make, as I myself received an offer for gifts last year due to being a “dedicated moderator”. The offers included perks like 6 months of unlimited access to Skillshare, and a one-time delivery of a snack box from SnackMagic. Heady stuff."

Dry. I'm enjoying the essay and thought I'd share that as a fun sentence.

@yoasif @Homebrewandhacking

I loved that sentence too

@clive Good essay! And I appreciated the link out to the paper estimating that moderators do 466 person-hours of work per day, I've seen th $3.4 million/year number tossed around a lot and wondered where it came from.

@jdp23

It’s an interesting paper, very readable!

@clive agreed, although since tasks like deliberation that don't show up in the moderator logs and isn't counted in the estimate, it's almost certainly a significant underestimate (or a lower bound, as the authors describe it). I found myself wondering if reddit's thinking "hey no prob, we'll just pay for some of the modeation ourself if necessary, it's less than it costs us to support Apollo et al." If so, good luck with that!😂

@jdp23

Indeed!

@clive not sure if you've seen @sarahgilbert's excellent paper on intersectional moderation. It'd take more than 466 person-hours a week to apply that approach reddit wide! https://arxiv.org/pdf/2305.11250.pdf

More positively I think there's a huge potential opportunity here, to bring a strong moderation focus and tooling to support it to the fediverse - kbin and lemmy most obviously, ideally more broadly as well. We shall see.

@jdp23 @sarahgilbert

I’ll check that out, hadn’t seen it – thanks for the pointer!

Cassandrich Jun 17, 2023

@clive That estimate is lowball by a few orders of magnitude.

@dalias

Quite likely

Kevin Russell Jun 17, 2023

@clive

Agree on your point, but I think a true valuation of the content provided free to reddit is astronomical.
I don't think 3 million is even in the same country as an accurrate measure of the worth of reddit content.

Just for being one of the "most useful results" on searches, it probably arranged for several billion in google ads.

As writers are now on strike, its hard to pin down exactly the hourly costs of writing a hundred thousand pages that people search for.

#reddit #welcomeHome

@kevinrns

Yep, fair enough

Dobviews Jun 17, 2023

@clive Start billing Reddit as private contractors?

Yep

Reddit can really get stuffed, can’t it?

@pcbeard @donmelton

Its hard-core volunteers seem to feel that way right now, for sure

Adrian Hon Jun 17, 2023

@clive surely at least a couple of orders of magnitude too low?!

lia bulaong Jun 17, 2023

@adrianhon @clive second that! seems impossibly low.

@lia @adrianhon

Yep -- the academics caution that it's a lower bound, and I suspect it's at least an order of magnitude too low

pcbeard Jun 17, 2023

@clive @donmelton

“Reddit represents one of the largest data sets of just human beings talking about interesting things,” Huffman said. “We are not in the business of giving that away for free.” — Reddit CEO

While Reddit certainly provided the platform to make this happen, the value isn’t really the platform, but the content itself, which Reddit effectively got for free.

Just like Twitter, Reddit seems to be hell-bent on jerking its users around. And just like Google, Reddit’s users are the product. And they are being sold out.

Kamikater Jun 17, 2023

@clive I've just read that Huffman is forcing subs to reopen, that was the final straw for me. I've just deleted my account. Sucks to leave after 5 years and have to leave like this, but I don't see any other option right now.

On the other hand, that's one user of a 3rd party app less, so that should help in getting the costs down, right?

@kamikater

alas, yes

Its Gregory Jun 17, 2023

@clive
The moderators are volunteers for budda's sake !

Sentient Mortal Jun 18, 2023

@clive free work often engenders dominance rather than gratitude.

Miro Collas Jun 18, 2023

@clive Enshittification in action, yet again. #Capitalism

LimeGreenTeknii Jun 18, 2023

@clive The gall of Reddit's CEO to call someone else landed gentry...

author_is_ShrikeTron🔠💉x5 Jun 18, 2023

@clive "Landed gentry CEO calling free balloons black. News at 11 on Hellsite."

Mike Majeski Jun 18, 2023

@clive Every time he opens his mouth it gets worse. I know he mentioned he was following the Musk business model & it shows.

@mmajeski

Alas, that appears to be true

Sztuczne Chwasty Jun 18, 2023

@clive
We had to re-read your post to realize that the spoiled tech bro is calling unpaid volunteers the "landed gentry".

Because they just want a convenient platform, rather than funneling money towards his next Ferrari.

Jesus.
@Radical_EgoCom

@Radical_EgoCom @sztucznechwasty

It’s quite the metaphor, eh?

Sztuczne Chwasty Jun 18, 2023

@clive @Radical_EgoCom We'd say it's on the nose, if the nose was the equivalent of an orbital elevator.

73 million seconds Jun 18, 2023

@clive I think a big part of why Reddit became successful was that people felt like they got to "own" the communities that they started there. Probably a reality check for many.

@73ms

Yep — and it’s interesting seeing some communities talk about whether they could decamp to a fediverse-hosted discussion arena

mnemonicoverload Jun 18, 2023

@clive
It's good to see a spoiled CEO accidentally exposing the ridiculousness of providing free moderation labour to a for-profit business. Rarely do you see them admit to the grift so clearly.

@mnemonicoverload

True indeed