Steve Troughton-SmithJun 7, 2023
I do think Apple is going to be in a tough spot with game devs for visionOS. Sessions make it clear that hand tracking just won’t be accurate enough for anything fast-paced, and everything has to be re-hosted using Apple APIs to do even basic things with the system compositor. I expect there will be a rising chorus of ‘we need hand controllers’ at the very least. If Apple doesn't have hand controllers of some kind by version 2.0, it could negatively impact the platform for years to come #WWDC23
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithJun 7, 2023
The real worry is that gaming is such a blind spot for Apple that they don't realize this at the decision-making levels, and won't have been preparing for this eventuality. You don't just throw together hand controllers at the last minute — they need to do similar inside-out tracking to the headset itself, with multiple cameras and sensors. This may be a painful wake-up call
Show threadSteve Troughton-Smith
Let's not think about the fact that Apple burned all its bridges with Epic, whose Unreal Engine, this past generation, has become the only game engine in town with which anybody wants to work. Tight Unity support is great, but not in any way enough
Jun 7, 2023 at 1:49pmIvory for Mac
Show threadCesare ForelliJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith Brought to you by the company who fought for a decade with Nvidia, when everybody wanted they GPUs…
Show threadThom HolwerdaJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith Apple's feud with NVIDIA set the Mac back, graphics-wise, by at least a decade, if not more. Repetition?
Show threadMiguel de Icaza ᯅ🍉Jun 7, 2023
@thomholwerda @stroughtonsmith yet Xbox and PlayStation have been on amd for decades. Not as big of a moat as people claim.
Show threaddonkeyJun 8, 2023
@Migueldeicaza @thomholwerda @stroughtonsmith And also not solely Apples fault like is being implied. There’s plenty of blame both sides of that argument.
Show threadLucas MengeJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith I can’t stop thinking that:
- Apple reaches out to Epic to partner on the headset a few years ago
- Epic has the power, lobbies for alternate App Store/payment methods
- Apple says no
- Epic gets annoyed and pulls the stunt they did thinking “are they really gonna wanna lose the biggest game engine from their platform and upcoming amazing headset?”
- And here we are
Show threadJanJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith „Apple burned all the bridges“… who again submitted an update they knew would be rejected and had everything ready to sue the next day? 🤔
Show threaddonkeyJun 8, 2023
@meaningful_jan @stroughtonsmith Indeed. Bridges were burned. But I don’t believe Apple lit the fire here.
Show threadDΛNIEL TʘMΛNJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith was it Apple that burned the bridges, or Epic? 🤔
Show threadTim JohnsenJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith feels like it was Epic doing the bridge burning
Show threadMaxJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith This does not mean that Epic will not add support.
Show threadRob McDougallJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith as someone who, by all rights, should have a gaming PC to do his job, Apple's major weakness right now is all gaming related. The M2 GPU's are excellent for laptops, but the desktop is only so-so, compared to an NVidia 4090 which, for the money you'd pay for a Mac Pro, would be what you'd expect.
Show threadZhuowei ZhangJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith I can find _zero_ AR experiences built in Unreal.
Every single app in https://vrscout.com/news/five-cool-mixed-reality-games-apps-for-quest-pro/ is Unity, as far as I can tell.
Even most VR experiences on Oculus Quest are Unity.

(According to Unity themselves, they power 90% of AR experiences on headsets: https://create.unity.com/unity-pro-for-industrial)

I don't think burning bridges with Unreal will actually hurt Apple's headset, especially when they're not marketing it as a VR/gaming device.
Five Cool Mixed Reality Games & Apps For Quest Pro - VRScout

Meta's latest VR headset already features a solid lineup of mixed reality games and apps, from Figmin XR to Puzzling Places.

VRScout
Show threadGrievous AngelJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith they had games controllers in the demo video?
Show threadNamanJun 9, 2023
@grievousangel @stroughtonsmith Yeah but not motion controllers. The existing games like Beat Saber need motion controllers.
Show threadNamanJun 9, 2023

@grievousangel @stroughtonsmith I do want to add that games like Beat Saber came about *because* motion controllers were the only input mechanism.

Hand-tracking and “traditional” controllers might enable different new kinds of games.

Show threadNamanJun 9, 2023
@grievousangel @stroughtonsmith The problem with hand-tracking is that it can’t be used for any quick motion tracking which is needed for gaming. Fast movements are hard for the cameras to track.
Show threadGrievous AngelJun 9, 2023
@nmn @stroughtonsmith yes. 2 different gaming models there. Vision probably lacks the GPU to push enough polygons for pc style gaming. But good for lightweight post iPad ar gaming.
Show threadSteven Op de beeckJun 7, 2023
@stroughtonsmith I believe it was Epic that struck first.
Show threadColJun 8, 2023
@stroughtonsmith the decision to not support Flash on the original iPhone springs to mind. Flash was also the only game in town… we’re at the start of a process…