censored for “transphobia”@rolandwasheeeere That cheeky WSJ headline was non-serious clickbait. The article did not actually suggest ppl skip breakfast. It mentioned #egg prices jumped 8.5%. I’m not bothered when non-vegan food prices jump. That’s a good thing if it helps steer people away from animal exploitation.
Ursidinoj/The Bjornsdottirs@koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere so you're cheering on folks starving because it drives people veg. people being driven veg by higher prices and then being driven off their veg food by that going higher too was the irish great famine. ideologically-driven psychopathy
Wendy Lady@ellenor2000 @koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere I read that too and raised an eyebrow. Sometimes vegans are proto-vegan...aka, want to push their own ideologies on others without their consent. Almost as bad as religious fundamentalism. Ignoring the human exploitive cost to harvesting their veggies, of course. Then they come around and drop the act and just be vegan for their own selves and leave the rest of us alone. I dated a vegan who knew better. And I actually like vegan food! Just not that other manipulative bullshit.
Anyway, this article's notion just made me want to raise my own chickens...too bad I can't afford a house with a yard to do it. Just like the vegans want, I guess. 🫠
undead enby of the apocalypse@ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere @koherecoWatchdog @NerdRage42 at the risk of sounding a bit provocative, would you say the same about murder? “It’s fine if you choose not to murder random people but stop pushing your anti-murder views on us murderers, it’s our personal choice!”
What I’m saying is, there’s a reason why we oppose animal exploitation, and that’s because we believe nonhuman animals too deserve to not suffer and to be born, raised, mistreated, and killed at a young age just for the pleasure of humans. Seeing people do things that result in the exploitation of animals is very upsetting for this reason, and the reason why many of us outwardly adapt a “you do you” stance is because we’re exhausted and don’t want conflict, because even if we just do our thing in silence people just keep getting upset about it, because they don’t want to face their own feelings of guilt. I’m sorry but I think both rising food prices and animal exploitation are horrific and cause a shit ton of suffering, so just this once I’m gonna take the bait again and say that I oppose both of you. Consuming animal products if you have the option not to is definitely not a personal choice because it also affects the animals your products come from.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere @koherecoWatchdog straaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwmannnñnnnnnnnn
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @NerdRage42 @rolandwasheeeere Indeed I had the same thought. And no, it was certainly not a strawman. You did not present a different argument as NerdRage42 & then attack it. You made an analogy. The only possible logical fallacy would be /false analogy/, but those are quite dicey b/c an emotional hot head rarely accepts or absorbs analogies by the opposition. The analogy was good enough.
@rolandwasheeeere @NerdRage42 @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse The analogy exposes the fact that NerdRage42 has a problem #activism. He expects ppl to keep their sense of ethics to themselves, keep their head down, & not advocate moral responsibility. I’m not vegan but ideologically I am aligned w/vegans. I take issue w/vegans who actually do keep their head down. It’s insufficient to just take personal responsibility w/out advocacy.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @NerdRage42 @rolandwasheeeere Great quote that I have much respect for: “Activism is my rent for living on this planet” —Alice Walker It’s a great quote because it not only endorses activism, it says we have a *duty* to practice activism.
@koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse I don't have a problem with activism. I have a problem with people narcissistically pushing an ideology on others as if their way is the only answer. Wanna be vegan, be vegan. But telling others to be vegan or starve because eggs are more expensive is wrong. And then morally judging when the person doesn't agree is preposterous.
@NerdRage42 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere You’ve missed one of enby_of_the_apocalypse’s critical posts. Veganism is not an absolute diet. Veganism is about doing all you /can/. If you were locked in a room & only eggs & concrete were around you, you can absolutely eat the eggs /and you are still vegan/. Why? Because you would be doing /all you can/.. you would be /minimizing/ exploitation of animals.
@rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @NerdRage42 Veganism never imposes starvation. Anyone who says otherwise does not understand veganism.
@koherecoWatchdog @enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere that's not an equal analogy. It's presented as an extreme as a way to provoke something to attack at. That's not equivalent argument. You don't tell a lion to not eat meat because it's like murdering its own kind. As well, we aren't eating our own kind either.
@NerdRage42 @rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse It is more extreme, which is often what helps clarify the point. Being more extreme does not make it a false analogy.
@koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse btw, the steak I fed my family tonight was delicious. We used smoky Montreal seasoning. I cooked it with butter, onions, and a portabella mushroom.
I might have an impossible burger tomorrow to even out my conscience.
@NerdRage42 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere Question is, where did you get that steak? If you pulled the steak out of dumpster or you stole it, then you contributed in no way to exploitation of animals, and that’s still vegan. If you slaughtered the animal, or paid someone to do so, that’s another thing.
@rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @NerdRage42 BTW, I am not vegan and I love eating steak. But I’ve cut way back on it. I’m at a point where I will only buy steak if it is on the day of expiry & marked down 50%. It’s a baby step toward veganism. Of all animal products, beef is the most GHG emitting of all of them & it has double the emissions of the next worst option (goat iirc).
@NerdRage42 @koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere @ellenor2000 it always boils down to this, doesn’t it? Every time you people run out of bad faith arguments you go “look at this meat i ate, meat yummy, aren’t you upset now vegans”. I’m not surprised tbh.
@koherecoWatchdog @NerdRage42 @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere and yes, some people can’t be plant based because of for example health reasons. But veganism is as far as possible and practical, and no one is saying those people need to stop eating animal products if it’s not possible for them to do. And yes, no ethical consumption under capitalism and stuff, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some kinds of consumption that are especially unethical (and would be under any system), and we should reduce those as far as possible. And yes, plant farming too results in exploitation, but you know what your exploited animals eat? Plants. And far more for a far smaller amount of food than if you just ate plants.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @koherecoWatchdog @ellenor2000 @rolandwasheeeere Yeah, I ain't reading all that.
Trust me, the moment I read your first sentence I knew what the rest was gunna be. I'm 44 years old and have heard every vegan non-argument for decades since the 90s. Not a single one sounds less hostile and the only thing I've ever seen work for eating less meat is "here's an option that's accessible and affordable to eat it if you want to."
Trust me. You're exhausting.
Fuckin' proto-vegans. I swear. When you develop your thought process a bit more you'll see what an ass you sound like now and laugh. Good luck on your journey.
@NerdRage42 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere I can't feel the gears in my head because they're munged up now,
@ellenor2000 @enby_of_the_apocalypse @koherecoWatchdog @rolandwasheeeere we morally inferior robots shall surely never survive the coming apocalypse. What will we do!?
Chris A Dude@enby_of_the_apocalypse @ellenor2000 @[email protected] @koherecoWatchdog @NerdRage42 I think is a false analogy. Analogies would stay in the same realm. Cruelty is the realm. "I like kicking cats and dogs because it gives me pleasure ext" that might work as a analogy.
@koherecoWatchdog @NerdRage42 @chaosrsa @rolandwasheeeere @[email protected] the point of the analogy is about how it’s absurd to expect people to just stay quiet when others do horrible things and how absurd it is to paint people as bad people for wanting others to not do bad things.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @koherecoWatchdog @NerdRage42 @[email protected] for some reason people relate to abuse of pets more then a hypothetical world where murder is ok in my experience.
@chaosrsa @NerdRage42 @rolandwasheeeere @koherecoWatchdog perhaps, but I don’t see the point of nitpicking about the ideal analogy
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @NerdRage42 @[email protected] @koherecoWatchdog it's like the nut picking fallacy. Pick the most extreme unreasonable person in group X then point out the absurdity and claim it for the whole group. It doesn't move the conversation forward and nor is it productive.
It's not the same here but if one makes the analogy more relatable then the point might come through. And I agree that a analogy doesn't need to be perfect but it needs to be impactful.