also i felt like wargamers in general would have a better grasp of military logistics, but i am getting the feeling that the 40k base is actually really split between the wargaming, the collecting/painting, and the lore

there are some people who are just in it for the lore and don't play or own any minis

the problem is that this is a miserable return on resource investment in the 40k universe where this is scaled up tremendously

a few thousand space marines? tens of thousands?

in 40k lore there are quadrillions. a galactic ocean of randos with lasguns

if you want historical, real life precedent, special forces are wiped out or forced to retreat by conventional forces all the damned time

are you really gonna risk 20 space marines to tie up 100 orks?

1,000? 10,000?

it's pretty well-established that a whole host of things can grease space marines. using them like shock troops (as widely depicted in the lore and cinematics i have seen) is wildly irresponsible and likely ineffective

"we sent the space marines in and they KILLED EVERYONE"
if you wanna kill everyone you just level the place. stand off and use explosives. what the hell are you doing

space marines in 40k aren't shown to do any of the actually special things real life special forces do

their lore dictates that only they can do/use their Cool Guy shit and toys, so they can't even train a partisan force

sneak over here and plant a bomb

aren't they expert tacticians? you should be laying battle plans and setting the stage for how your overwhelming conventional forces secure victory

i'm being told the imperium of man might have extremely limited capability to actually manufacture weapons of war

standby for lore checking and rage

alright lol

so this is a whole new threat level

not only does my fallout character one round vats that squad of space marines, i am not reverse engineering all their toys with the aid of micro fusion energy sources

ALSO THIS MAKES ALL THE GENERIC ASS SPACE MARINES GAMES WORKSHOP SELLS EVEN WORSE

IF THESE SUITS OF ARMOR ARE LIKE THIRTY THOUSAND YEARS OLD THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPAIRED WHO KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES AND TOTALLY CUSTOMIZED BY NOW

so let's say a space marine's bolter jams

is he allowed to engage in a corrective procedure

would he even know how

rpg goal unlocked

*vibrates in escape velocity*

giving @DarkestKale fitful nightmares because i told him i dunno what white dwarf is

also that fallout 1/2 aren't anti-nuke

also robocop 1 is copaganda

deal with it and adjust your worldview accordingly

one of the best and worst things about fandoms are fan theories

getting really into a (relatively large) fandom shows you have false information spreads, and not just from bad actors

someone made an honest to fuck mistake in a wiki? now everyone parrots it. years later

youtube in a way has made it so much better but also so much worse

because so many streamers/youtubers make lore videos now, which is cool

but they're still human. they make mistakes. and a lot of them run mods while making lore videos lol

now, obviously i have a sci-fi bias. i like fallout

i am currently reading (and not liking tbh) 40k lore

so these settings are ostensibly grounded in real life physics and reality

so you also get to throw in the added problem of: authorities in lore who don't understand how shit works in real life

last night before i went to bed youtube recommended me a 40k video

because of course it did

it was a fairly well viewed video by a channel with like a quarter million subs trying to draw conclusions about space marine power armor in 40k to real life protective capability

except this guy presented his findings as well researched etc etc... and he couldn't even read a fucking plate level rating correctly

and even worse? part of this is due to MOAR VIDEO GAMES KNOWLEDGE

because gamers will just say "7.62" and infer meaning

except that if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about wrt context that could be a wide range of cartridges

that's why we call 7.62(mm) a caliber

do you mean:
7.62x17mm?
7.62x25mm? (which variant?)
7.62x29mm?
7.62x51mm? (nato?)

you also have loadings, barrels, etc etc

and of course, the video overestimates the strength of space marine protection

even the section where he tried to downplay space marine armor he sort of handwaved it with an image of an rpg-7... which can fire a bunch of different warheads

it's excessively funny, especially since given the fandom love of space marines, they have an associated love of the bolter - and the explosive power of that ammunition

this fucking pg-7vr tho? nah lol THAT AIN'T SHIT

oh you got a tiny ass bullet

that's real fukken cute

we got tandem explosives

one of the drawbacks of modern individual armor is backface deformation

what happens when you get hit but the plate does not hold to spec and the back side deforms so much, just shoving all the fucking material into your body, even if the bullet/shrapnel/whatever does not actually penetrate your deformed armor

what the fuck is your space marine gonna do if half his front plate gets concaved

"he's got three lungs"
yeah and all three of them just got crushed by a curved layer of magic space steel that's stronger than he is, supposedly

so he can't even bend it back out to breathe

he can't cut himself out of it

he's just gonna fall over and die lol

in other words, even tho you made your space marines magically hardy, and fire and acid resistant with multiple organ redundancies or whatever, basic physics can still smoke you, even without penetration

yeah i said it

if you wanna tell me "no, your average sm can bench press ten tons" or some shit fine whatever

the moment you start describing how a fucking solenoid in his left buttcheck powers his abdominal core we are gonna have problems

like bolters. the more i read about bolters the more mad i get because from an engineering standpoint they make no fucking sense

just tell me it's a fucking explosive auto pistol that only space marines can use and that's FINE

you don't need to start trying to ground it badly in physics that don't make any damn sense

@kaynSD @worthlessbums I've been trying to tell this to Bums, but...

It's like Marvel. Any time they put a number of kg's the Hulk can lift, it's always wrong, because... well. They'll change it later.

The number isn't the point.

@kaynSD @worthlessbums Like, you can't have an IP go for 20+ years without the lore becoming wildly divergent and contradictory and useless when examined closely.

It just can't happen - even on single author projects, shit gets fucked up.

@kaynSD @worthlessbums As for GW, 40k's been heading into 'the future is gritty and REAL and DARK' like it's the fucking 90s all over again, and it's just so stale and tepid and boring now.

At least the 80s/90s stuff was colour pops and as though everyone was on some vaguely good drugs and OH NO SPACE LIZARDS (was: re: tyranids used to trade)

@kaynSD @worthlessbums Those are three VERY different eras of 40k.

You can't write 'there's only war, but maybe the good guys are winning' AND 'there's only war, and everyone's losing' together in the same bundle. The latter requires your population to be constantly starving and the empire to be on the brink of crumbling at any time, and that just doesn't work with the former.

So you're just constantly shifting, and the wiki writers are furiously revising, and the whole thing doesn't work.