Jeff AtwoodCan we please for the love of god stop collectively pretending Adderall isn’t meth?
Tim Bray@codinghorror No. There are people with ADHD for whom Adderall means they can get out of bed and do their laundry.
Ken Crandall@kencrandall @timbray also true of alcohol, don't make it right.
@codinghorror @kencrandall Um, do you have personal experience with the ADHD family of disorders, or people who suffer from them? Because I do, in my immediate and extended family, and your position is angering me. Would you like to drop by and explain to my teenager why the medicine that lets them get out of bed and do school is “not right”? (Not specifically Adderall, but a stimulant.)
@timbray @kencrandall I'm not saying "not right" but "abuse and harm profile is radically underestimated in a way that history is not going to look back kindly on"
flere-imsaho 🇺🇦@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall fair. let's revisit this in 10 years and see who history proves right, shall we?
@codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall that's an admission of having absolutely nothing to support your opinion, mind.
and, if you could be so kind, what are your qualifications in medicine and biochemistry? judging by your argument (apparently thinking that methylation does not matter much), you have none.
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall I think I could make a very compelling case but I don't want to bother you. Let history tell us who was right. Simpler, cleaner, less fuss.
@codinghorror @mawhrin @kencrandall As long as you agree to hold your peace about prescriptions that are making my loved ones' lives possible for those years. Because at the moment you sound like an antivaxxer.
@timbray @mawhrin @kencrandall oh god no. I just want people to treat this stuff with the danger/respect that it deserves. Meth, Heroin, Alcohol. Those are the most dangerous by far.
@codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall i haven't seen gish gallop in use for a long time; mate, don't be this dishonest, it doesn't suit.
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall nah, there's just a bunch of detail I can't give you here in public. Email me if you want to go voice and I can be quite specific
@codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall what are your qualifications in medicine, biochemistry and/or public health?
sam@codinghorror @timbray @mawhrin @kencrandall You do realize that desoxyn (methamphetamine) is far from the first line medication for ADHD and generally prescribed after several other (less abusable) drugs are tried, right? ADHD is an actual thing that people have and low doses of stimulants have a markedly different effect on people who have it. It’s also not nearly as rare as you seem to think it is
@codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall and i'm saying that if you could, you would, and instead you resort to argumentum ex auctoritate when someone calls your bluff.
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall it's fine, agree to disagree. Otherwise we're just yelling at each other and that doesn't seem like a productive use of your time, or mine.
b4ux1t3 
#1️⃣@codinghorror @mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall history has already fairly thoroughly proved you wrong.
A societal bias towards some ephemeral "productivity target" and an epidemic of over-prescription and misdiagnosis are not problems with a specific drug, they're problems with the system as a whole.
Adderall is not methamphetamine. They aren't the same thing. Full stop.
@codinghorror @mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall If you said "Can we all agree that some medications are overprescribed", I don't think anyone in this thread would have disagreed with you.
@b4ux1t3 @codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall …and adderall is but one of various medications used to treat adhd, which atwood must know if he ever did the lightest research – which only shows how dishonestly he approaches the conversation.
@codinghorror
remind us again what are your medical/biochemical/public health qualifications here?
@timbray @kencrandall
remind us again what are your medical/biochemical/public health qualifications here?
@timbray @kencrandall
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall My qualifications are, I know how to read. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11595829/One-EIGHT-people-ADHD-drug-adderall-prescription-rules-relaxed.html
@codinghorror can you answer my question or is it also something that you can't say in public? (quoting a typically scaremongering article from daily mail does not answer it)
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall I've known a lot of people who get sucked into this drug, and my friend circle isn't that big, so.. it scares me. Tip of the iceberg kinda thing.
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall I just care about my friends, I guess? I'm sorry if that's a problem.
@codinghorror @timbray @kencrandall can you spell your medicine/biochemistry/public health credentials louder for the crowd in the back? thanks.
@mawhrin @timbray @kencrandall I don't feel like you are discussing this in good faith with me, so I am disengaging from you. The offer to have a direct voice call is real, not a challenge, just so I can be more human and honest and open with you, in a way that I cannot be in public here.
Erik S@codinghorror Not discounting the risks from abuse, but I’ll suggest that a lot of people who should have prescriptions can’t get them because their untreated ADHD makes it very difficult to navigate the medical system to get a diagnosis & prescription.
Right now, shortages, caused in part by restrictive regulation, leaves people unmedicated and ill equipped to find any.
Does your draft of history take any of that into account? @timbray @kencrandall