Mastodawn

Daniel May 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration If you read through #mastoadmin posts after the recent spam wave, some admins definitely blocked or silenced mastodon.social. Some temporary, some longer.

@daniel As discussed above, the issue here is not whether some instances temporarily blocked mastodon.social while the attack was going on. The implication was that people on mastodon.social were at risk for being "defederated" and that they should change instances to avoid this. This was a misleading because peoples accounts on mastodon.social are not at risk of being isolated.

Daniel May 15, 2023

@mastodonmigration I just don't understand where this certainty of your statement comes from or what your intention is. "They will not...", "They're not at risk...".

There are definitely considerations by admins to defederate mastodon.social if it reaches a certain user share: https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110260432218416976

And I'm pretty sure I've also seen statements by bigger instances with a couple thousand of users that back this decision (unfortunately the search isn't really good enough to find those posts atm).

The question is also whether the temporary blockings of mastodon.social will at some point become very many temporary blockings which are then actually more or less permanent. The moderation of mastodon.social will definitely suffer as the number of users increases (even if you leave out spam accounts and attacks like yesterday). The other issues were mentioned in the post by @feditips .

If the users can do it and are confident enough, they should definitely register on other instances. If only for the reason of load distribution and to keep the #Fediverse alive and a nice and friendly place.

Btw some of the other fediverse software uses captchas to prevent bot accounts.

FediTips has moved! (@[email protected])

I don't think people are realising the danger the Fediverse is in. The only thing stopping corporations and VCs taking over this place is that the Fediverse is spread out on many different servers, which makes it very difficult to purchase. If most of the Fediverse ends up on mastodon.social, which is now a strong possibility, there will be nothing to stop most of it being sold to Musk or Zuckerberg or whoever. The bigger mastodon.social becomes, the more likely a buyout is to happen. (1/4)

Mastodon 🐘

Mastodon Migration

@daniel @feditips Regarding the "not at risk" statement. People on mastodon.social are simply not at risk of being permanently fediblocked isolated from large parts of the Fediverse. They simply are not, and to suggest they are is a scare tactic.

@mastodonmigration @daniel

It's not a scare tactic.

Blocking mastodon.social is now seriously on the cards for many admins, even ones who would never have done it before.

The reason the Fediverse exists is to be decentralised. M.s is way too large now, and getting even larger due to the official app's terrible new onboarding.

If people want this place to be decentralised, they need to move off mastodon.social. If they don't care, then they can expect more fediblocks as m.s grows.

user8e8f87e May 15, 2023

@feditips @mastodonmigration @daniel If my instance blocks mastodon.social I will move to it.

Tim Stanton May 15, 2023

@feditips Does this concern apply to mstdn.social as well? Thanks.

@TimKStanton

No.

Mstdn.social is a totally different server owned by totally different people. It has no connection whatsoever to mastodon.social.

Tim Stanton May 15, 2023

@feditips Thank you so much for your fast and thoughtful response!!

@mastodonmigration @daniel

The whole point of this place is to spread the network out:

https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers/

If the growth of m.s is a threat to this, then that growth needs to be stopped.

Ideally, the owners of m.s would stop taking signups, or at least remove it from the official app. But they're doing exactly the opposite, they're telling everyone to sign up on m.s.

M.s are destroying the driving force of the Fediverse by doing this, m.s need to stop.

Why is the Fediverse on so many separate servers? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

aRubes May 15, 2023

@feditips @mastodonmigration @daniel ideally, Limiting or Silencing etc. Should work in the long run, too, but we'll see about that. Sloth.run and tooot.im already limit mastodon.social indefinitely

cmonster has moved.May 15, 2023

@feditips honest question from a non-techie who came here when Twitter was first purchased but not from Twitter: Would it be feasible for new sign ups to be offered the option to be automatically put on a random instance to start? Of course the instances on that list would choose to opt in to it and new users could choose to DIY if they desired. But from my perspective as a still newbie, what instance I ended up on mattered very little as a casual user with no specific focus. I think most people are like me.

I get that the wealth of servers protects the system as a whole from takeover etc and that's great. But asking new users to care what instance they are on and evaluate them from the get go is a big hurdle. It's hard to grok why the choice even matters when one first signs up. So sign new users up to a random one by default to spread everyone around, but give them the option to choose too. Could that work?

@cmonster

Yes, a random server from a trusted pool with good track records is exactly what people are suggesting should happen.

cmonster has moved.May 15, 2023

@feditips great. I hope that happens.
Thanks for all you do. Yours was one of the first accounts I followed and still one of my faves. I learn new stuff all the time from you!🙏

Shawn M. Jones, PhD May 15, 2023

@cmonster @feditips I have been thinking about this very idea during the recent spam incident. You articulated it better than I.

@cmonster @feditips This is certainly one of the suggestions, and there is absolutely no technical reason it would not work.

@feditips @daniel Again, your work on this issue is commendable. But misleadingly telling people they will be isolated if they don't move, will not help your cause.

Claudius (legacy account)May 15, 2023

@feditips
I'm on a matrix channel of dozens of Fediverse admins. Blocking m.s has come up and has been discussed in all seriousness.
@mastodonmigration @daniel

Patrick Fasano May 15, 2023

@feditips @mastodonmigration @daniel This feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the majority of the network is on mastodon.social and the only way to access the majority of the network is to join mastodon.social, new users will (rationally) choose to join mastodon.social, leading to further centralization. It’s a positive feedback loop.

Jerry on Mastodon May 15, 2023

@feditips @mastodonmigration @daniel

Why a block? Why not limit or silence if one wants to take action? At least until there are moderator tools to help avoid these attacks?

Blocking sounds extreme to me.

Blocking might cause a large exit from the Fediverse if people feel they are being made pawns in some sort of internal uprising.

I'd be pissed if suddenly I lost all my connections to people I communicate with on mastodon.social. I'd think, "who the hell are these people to decide that I can't talk to my friends any longer or follow people who I like to follow."

I'd leave permanently. I would never trust another server Admin. I'd never come back.

Convince me that I'm wrong.

@Jerry @mastodonmigration @daniel

"I'd be pissed if suddenly I lost all my connections to people I communicate with on mastodon.social. "

It's not going to be painless, but it will be a lot easier than if m.s becomes a majority of the Fediverse.

If that happens, the Fedi itself could be bought and sold on the whim of the owner of m.s (which at the moment is Eugen but who knows who it will be in the future).

It's like global warming: the longer you wait, the harder it is to take action.

Craig Mcgee May 15, 2023

@feditips @Jerry @mastodonmigration @daniel its a shame theres no way to be able to put in your servers address into a search engine and see all the fediverse instances that have blocked you. I understand why that isnt possible though as someone pointed out, bad actors like hateful instance owners could use that info to target everyone who blocked their instance. not sure theres a solution to help those of us who want to check our instance isnt blocked and contact admins if it is by mistake.1/2

@guiltmanager @feditips @Jerry @mastodonmigration

Daniel May 15, 2023

its a shame theres no way to be able to put in your servers address into a search engine and see all the fediverse instances that have blocked you.There's a website that does this actually. And yes, it used to harass people which is why I'm not going to share the address.

If the website is correct, mastodon.social is currently moderated (muted or blocked) by about 279 instances across the fediverse.

Craig Mcgee May 15, 2023

@daniel @feditips @mastodonmigration @Jerry can understand why you wouldnt share it! however if you feel like sharing it privately feel free to dm me, although admittedly it would probably take you a while to research me enough to know my intentions aren't bad.

Craig Mcgee May 15, 2023

@feditips @Jerry @mastodonmigration @daniel maybe a service you put in your server address and it says "you are not blocked" or "you are blocked by one or more instances, appeal by typing message and email in this box which will be sent to all instance admins" then you can ask "hang on my instance is blocked is this just a blanket block of say all digital ocean ips, or something to do with my content"