Mastodawn

Carey May 11, 2023

"In General Electric’s annual report from 1953, the company bragged about how much it paid in taxes and how much it was spending on payroll. It explicitly said that “maximizing employment security is a prime company goal.” The founder of Johnson & Johnson said that the company’s responsibility to its employees was higher than its responsibility to its shareholders. Corporations then had a radically different conception of their role in society compared with corporations today." https://archive.is/66hPb

matt May 11, 2023

@codinghorror "The productivity software that ran on personal computers was a perfect example of augmentation rather than automation: word-processing programs replaced typewriters rather than typists, and spreadsheet programs replaced paper spreadsheets rather than accountants. But the increased personal productivity brought about by the personal computer wasn’t matched by an increased standard of living."

What will we foster with #AI augmentation? Now's the time to direct.

VE7FIM May 11, 2023

@maphew @codinghorror

Word processors were used as an excuse to decimate technical writing departments.

Drafting software was used as an excuse to decimate drafting departments.

Etc.

Whole professions have been decimated and devalued, and quality and professionalism has gone way down as a result.

But hey, it increased corporate profits and bonuses for the execs. 😡

matt May 17, 2023

@ve7fim @codinghorror I'm sometimes a cartographer. Today with software I can make a map in several hours to days what used to take a team months to accomplish. So yeah, in me 1 person replaces 5.

But, I also do things inconceivable to even attempt then because of the effort scale. More people get more maps serving more purposes than when I started this gig 3 decades ago. And yeah, with this ease comes a lot of detritus. The professionals are still there though.

matt May 17, 2023

@ve7fim @codinghorror none of which should be taken "it's okay to shaft people because you can" !

matt May 18, 2023

@ve7fim @codinghorror "But hey, it increased corporate profits and bonuses for the execs. 😡” -- this cord in the thread shouldn't be dismissed. My between the lines point is we should focus on the behaviour that needs correcting/balancing, not the implement that happens to be in the hand that strikes the blow.

sxpert May 18, 2023

@maphew @ve7fim @codinghorror that's been the basic MO of capitalism for a long long time...

matt May 18, 2023

@ve7fim @codinghorror this thought-line just won't leave me alone. Those 5 people I've displaced were using letrasets, scribing pens, mylar transparencies, and several other tools. Each of which in turn allowed them to do more orders of magnitude work than the previous tool generations. Inkjet printers replaced electrostatic printers replaced offset presses* replaced presses replaced silk screens* replaced scribes and inkwells replaced stone tablets ...cave art.

matt May 18, 2023

@ve7fim @codinghorror * offset press and silk screen printing are still very much present and in demand, though also much transformed and informed with modern tech.

VE7FIM May 18, 2023

@maphew @codinghorror

The problem isn't new technology. New technology *in the hands of workers* is the best thing ever. Better, safer working conditions, higher quality output, new capabilities, ability to take on bigger projects, quicker turnaround time, etc.

The problem is when new technology is used to devalue skilled workers, to reduce quality, to lower wages, to worsen safety, quality of life, etc.

Here, I see far more of the latter than the former. They're quite open about it now.

sxpert May 18, 2023

@maphew @ve7fim @codinghorror still those skills are still useful to know, as they would work in case of a major computing disaster

Martijn Vos May 11, 2023

That's one of the few things of the 1950s we do need to get back to. Of course it may have helped that at the time, the top income tax bracket in the US was 90%, so there wasn't much point in trying to enrich the people at the top.

Randy Clayton May 12, 2023

@mcv one effect of high marginal corporate income tax rates is it encourages companies to invest in their employees and business. Those investments are deducted from taxable income and would be lost to the government otherwise in a high marginal rate regime. However, the owners of the company still benefit as the value of their shares in the company increase (due to retained earnings). So, the wealthy still benefit, but so do employees. Cutting corporate tax rates makes it easier to de-capitalize companies.

Mike Fraser May 11, 2023

@codinghorror And guess what, those philosophies created the biggest economic boom in history.

Devon Strang May 11, 2023

@codinghorror This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing it.

Kelvin n0mql EN35ld May 11, 2023

If you haven't seen "The Automat" docu from 2022, you should. The founders of Horn & Hardart (now defunct) were also of this mind.
#TheAutomat
#HornAndHardart

Catmama 🐈May 11, 2023

Now employees are seen as liabilities instead of assets.

The Long Tail May 11, 2023

@Catmama @codinghorror "The secret of our success lies in your execution"

John Maxwell May 11, 2023

@codinghorror Nah. They bragged about their taxes because they had to pay them anyway, so why not spin it. The rest was bullshit and lies, just like today.

Kevin Russell May 11, 2023

They have been stealing wages for ages.

Henry Ford thought it smart to pay Ford workers enough that workers could buy a Ford, and did so for years.

Members of the Board of Ford, took Ford to court, suing him for giving money that could be theirs, profits on their investment, to workers who have no standing in court.

They won, Ford Lost. Ford paid those Board members enough to start their own car company, which became GM.

Because people have no standing in court, just money.

Zach777 May 11, 2023

@kevinrns @codinghorror That is so dystopian lol. There should be a law preventing shareholders from making anything over than a small percentage of the profit of the company.

Kevin Russell May 11, 2023

@Zach777 @codinghorror

Taxes should be fair, companies should be small. Big companies create men who who begin to love being obeyed. Its the gateway drug to fascism.

Token Sane Person May 11, 2023

@codinghorror The purpose of a system is what it does. The purpose of a corporation, ever since the East India Company, has ALWAYS been to transfer as much money as possible to its senior managers.

Seppo Helava May 11, 2023

@codinghorror @radicalfaery thanks, Jack Welch. May your name live in infamy for the damage you’ve done.

Mark Demeny May 11, 2023

@codinghorror Western governments should start naming the people who have the biggest tax avoidance or subsidy strategies as societies biggest shirkers. And conversely awarding those who do actually pay the highest rates with maybe a lapel pin that says "Capitalism winner 2023" or "biggest social contributor" and a shot at being invited to breakfast with the leader of the country or something.

Fiona May 11, 2023

@codinghorror @rixx This week’s episode of the podcast behind the bastards tells a story about the man that changed that.

toxtethogrady May 12, 2023

@codinghorror This was in an age before Milton Friedman and Allan Greenspan came to dominate American business thought. It was cemented when Robert Ringer explained to ambitious up-and-comers how to Win Through Intimidation by strategically choosing the most "powerful" seat at a restaurant table prior to lunch. The fact that companies consider their primary purpose is to make money for their shareholders has corrupted American business, whose primary purpose used to be to stay in business...

Erika Wittekind May 12, 2023

My grandfather was a GE employee during that time period, and my mom remembers the hardships when the workers were striking. Workers had to fight hard for what they got, and from what I know of her childhood, it still wasn't much. So I'm not sure I would take GE, etc, at their word about their generosity.

Peter Merholz May 12, 2023

@codinghorror milton friedman was a ghoul

shyduroff May 12, 2023

@codinghorror … aye, g.e. once was known as ‘generous electric’ … sigh is not a big enough word …

Zorro Notorious MEB 😡May 12, 2023

@codinghorror What did GE's look like in 1957, after four years of Eisenhower in the White House and Ronald Reagan as their corporate spokesperson? Context matters!

xs4me2 May 12, 2023

We should get something of that attitude back again.

Capitalism simply is the wrong model…

Grumble May 12, 2023

@codinghorror Corporations are made of people.

Corporations haven't changed their conception of their role in society - the people who run corporations have changed their conception. The current conception seems eerily like the conception of 100 years ago.

I wonder if something might have happened between the early part of the 20th century and the middle of the 20th century that changed the perspective of the ruling class?

NixFREAK -May 12, 2023

@codinghorror We can blame #republicans for the change in demeanor. Ever since Regan started to cut taxes for the rich it all changed the mindset. Sad really...