Troy Atkins
Critical CupcakeYES!!
Dave_Smeg@CriticalCupcake It used to be before someone decided to include the formatting on the copy command.
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE@davesmeg @CriticalCupcake It's a long time (decades!) since I've written any low level Windows clipboard code, but my recollection is that the cutting application should register as many formats as it be bothered to cope with generating, and it's then up to the pasting application to choose which one it wants. So I would put the fault firmly on the pasting side.
@TimWardCam @CriticalCupcake
Sounds like something a politician would come up with.
Create a problem and then let someone else come up with a solution, when they do, make the problem more complicated and make others do even more work to come up with a solution.
@davesmeg @CriticalCupcake I was indeed surprised when I started writing clipboard code to find how complicated it was. There's also yet another layer of complexity around keeping stuff on the clipboard after the publishing application has closed.
But all this complexity is designed to give a simple and straightforward user experience ... which it was, until some misguided smartarses decided to change their default format for text pasting.
Iαn has moved account@davesmeg @TimWardCam @CriticalCupcake As always, this should be the USERS choice.
There was already the problem of the paste command losing information. A no-no!
If I have copied formatted text, images, tables, application objects and linked objects, in many cases I do not wish to lose work and have to redo it. So they fixed the problem.
It's not just a plain text world for many people.
@ianp5a @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake Yes, it should be the user's choice. We're discussing what should be the *default*, without having to right click or find a menu or anything.
@TimWardCam @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake Defaults will never be right for everyone. Defaults are something where devs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If you can't give a user choice, then if you are in an IT setting, then maybe plain text is preferred. Many of us are not in IT though.
Menno@ianp5a @TimWardCam @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake
Well, in MS-Word, it's a user choice to set whether to paste plain text, or formatted as default. It at least it used to be. We recently upgraded to new PCs and I haven't bothered to try fix it in our current version.
Well, in MS-Word, it's a user choice to set whether to paste plain text, or formatted as default. It at least it used to be. We recently upgraded to new PCs and I haven't bothered to try fix it in our current version.
Of Bookish Things@ianp5a @TimWardCam @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake As a retired Secondary School teacher (English, Sp.Ed., and #MediaLiteracy), there were, and likely still are, many that knew nothing about choice of paste format. I first found out about it from the main computer teacher. 😄
I would constantly be running into students and staff having the problem of format - not knowing why it happened, how to fix it, and avoid it.
The issue/problem is not default. The first problem was not knowing about format setting from digital text source. The second problem was knowing where to go in the menus to select 'paste special'.
It would have been much easier if the format choice showed up right where you were going to paste the text. Easier to learn and remember, especially if you were not frequently in need of pasting from differently formatted documents.
I would constantly be running into students and staff having the problem of format - not knowing why it happened, how to fix it, and avoid it.
The issue/problem is not default. The first problem was not knowing about format setting from digital text source. The second problem was knowing where to go in the menus to select 'paste special'.
It would have been much easier if the format choice showed up right where you were going to paste the text. Easier to learn and remember, especially if you were not frequently in need of pasting from differently formatted documents.
@JPK_elmediat @TimWardCam @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake
Yes. It's a tough one to represent in the user interface without adding clutter or confusion. But maybe not impossible.
One of the beauties of copy-paste is you often don't need any UI elements.
Another is it's one-step simplicity. It does one thing. Add more functionality and its use gets more complicated.
Another is users often want to manage information. Yet devs frequently equate information with text. They are often not the same thing.
@ianp5a @TimWardCam @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake I tend to look at problems like this from a Media Literacy point of view. Digital Text can be used across a number of different types of digital media. Specific 'formatting' are part of the codes and conventions of a specific medium. If you take the information conveyed by the text and move it to a different medium, you have to adjust the text to the codes and conventions.
The information (message) is altered in the change of media.
Another thing that would get me when I was teaching were the teachers who expected students to print up their slideshows for evaluation. What a waste of paper. All they needed to do is get a copy of the file. 🥴
@TimWardCam @ianp5a @CriticalCupcake I think that when using right-click to select "copy" there should be an option of "copy with formatting."
@davesmeg @ianp5a @CriticalCupcake That's not how the Windows clipboard works - the "cut" operation should offer as many formats as the source application can cope with, it's up to the "paste" application to choose one that it understands. What we're discussing is what should happen when the "paste" application can understand multiple of the formats on offer.
BurningButter 
@TimWardCam @ianp5a @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake You can hold CTRL+SHIFT+V to paste without formatting.
Laurence Gonsalves@TimWardCam Yes, it works in Slack, at least on Linux and macOS.
Blippy the Wonder Slug (MOVED)@TimWardCam @ianp5a @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake
Umm... It *IS* the user's choice [in Windows]...
<Ctrl>V : paste w/format
<Shift><Ctrl>V : paste w/out format
Umm... It *IS* the user's choice [in Windows]...
<Ctrl>V : paste w/format
<Shift><Ctrl>V : paste w/out format
@BlippyTheWonderSlug @ianp5a @davesmeg @CriticalCupcake *Some* applications do this - is it official? Does the Windows style manual even exist any more?
thistimeforsure@CriticalCupcake this is the way
LouD
SteveBologna@CriticalCupcake And I don’t know how to do any of that stuff
krp@CriticalCupcake and format is only Markdown
Jules 🍺@CriticalCupcake yes, definitely Yes, so bloody annoying
Mark Darbyshire@CriticalCupcake I would quite like the compromise of merge formatting so it captures any key structural information like headings, lists, and emphasis.
@mark I quite like that idea, i'd settle for being able to set the default with this as a viable alternative.
newsorpigalYeeeeeees!
Jon@CriticalCupcake yup yup - but for now if you are on Mac you can use this free tool from @sindresorhus to achieve just that in the background https://sindresorhus.com/pure-paste
Brian Grinter@scrwd @CriticalCupcake @sindresorhus Will check it out. I've memorised the keyboard shortcut but occasionally find apps that don't incorporate it
Phil Thane ✅@CriticalCupcake For text from the web the 'Copy plain text' plugin for Firefox is great.
Bruno Baketarić@CriticalCupcake Why not make the default configurable per User?
Cruising Steveswijk
smallerdemon@CriticalCupcake Yup. 1000%. However it got decided to paste with formatting as default...
Jamie Green@CriticalCupcake I use a keyboard maestro command to paste whatever is in the clipboard without formatting - it’s a great solution for this.
Scott Key@CriticalCupcake The footnote font should be the same as as the font in the body of the document.
Fahri Reza 🍉@CriticalCupcake that will break compatibility
Aaron O@CriticalCupcake hear me out... then it isn't truly copy.
I'm 100in for all pasting utilities to support without formatting, but copy needs to remain copy.
Json Doh@m750 @CriticalCupcake
Add shift to ctrl-v (as in shift-ctrl-v) and it should paste with the formatting. But it should be and should have been optional not default.
Add shift to ctrl-v (as in shift-ctrl-v) and it should paste with the formatting. But it should be and should have been optional not default.
Alison Meeks@CriticalCupcake All this! Every time!
Sebastian Hilger
JW prince of CPH
Jeffrey J. Dean@CriticalCupcake @futurebird I use Paste Plain Text from Fiplab, for MacOS. Does what it says on the tin, and it lets you toggle it on and off with a dropdown in the menu bar.
jsnidal@CriticalCupcake This! 800 times a day, this! Mind you, at least I finally learned the keyboard shortcut for it, but still …
Steven D. Brewer 🏳️⚧️If you always write using a text-editor, it always is. 😉
touching doodles@CriticalCupcake ms office can’t even seem to handle basic table formatting between its own software
Matty J
Khosumi@CriticalCupcake ctrl+shift+v pastes without formatting.
While it's not default it's not that difficult to do either
dondo@CriticalCupcake “paste content” and “paste format” should always be two separate commands.
Angie@CriticalCupcake This is why I always add "paste value" to the ribbon.
Ellie@CriticalCupcake abso-bloody-lutely!
Walter Basil@CriticalCupcake @dankennedy_nu Absolutely! Until then, “Control,T” is your friend. NB: not Control-T
Mollarom@CriticalCupcake Strongly considering making this my new profile landscape.
Jeff Atwood@CriticalCupcake YOU HAVE MY AXE 🪓
Not a Spring Onion@CriticalCupcake But how else am I going to infect the thoughtfully designed document with random styles from web pages?
Your Future Ex@CriticalCupcake While I concur, add Ctrl-Shift-V to your muscle memory
Samuel Goodwin@CriticalCupcake i could swear there was a way to set this as the default without 3rd party software.
Francis ☑️@CriticalCupcake also FFS Microsoft make every single one of your applications do this when you press ctrl-shift-v, rather than random ones
jrm4mostly yes, but to be fair it helped me catch a not insignificant number of (dumb) cheating college students quicker
Kenneth@CriticalCupcake this reminds me of the awful experience of copying from MS Teams. Who needs the timestamp every time they copy & paste?