Mastodawn

Joe 📷 🖖🤨May 3, 2023

@dangillmor What makes this all even more bizarre is that even in the best of times, Twitter was never a good driver of traffic. Imagine convincing celebrities and organizations followed by millions to post to your network for free and then antagonizing them to the point where they want to leave.

@Joe @dangillmor

Twitter unfortunately might get pretty big now

We need an alternative to Twitter, that's important. Unfortunately Mastodon is pretty small

@MichaelRoth @Joe @dangillmor Then the “best” of Twitter (scientists, reputable journalists, etc) should be encouraged more to migrate here.

Michael Roth May 4, 2023

@lzvolk @Joe @dangillmor

Yes I totally support that

But I think the problem is, that they will miss Twitter's relative simplicity

Mastodon is not streamlined enough

Odiseo May 3, 2023

@dangillmor They're hostages of their own vanity.

censored for “transphobia”May 3, 2023

@Odiseo79 @dangillmor Indeed, NPR did not make this move as a consequence of having a spine. It took proding from Twitter to push them off by putting an unwanted tag on thier profile. In the absence of that tag, NPR would have remained as spineless as other media orgs. /cc @kevin @krschwarz @az

@koherecoWatchdog @Odiseo79 @dangillmor @kevin @krschwarz @az The most common justifications for Twitter loyalty (isn’t that what it really is?) is they assert 1. Reaching broader audience, 2. Easier format for discussion (there is truth in that), 3. Believing/hoping Musk will be outed and it will return to ‘normal’. Of course, this does not include Musk loyalists and sycophants. Those scientists remaining there are disappointing.

Nafopositive May 4, 2023

@koherecoWatchdog @Odiseo79 @dangillmor @kevin @krschwarz @az I completely agree, However, there was a time when the news orgs might have stuck together concerning Twitter and boycotted the platform due to one being baselessly singled out.

System IV, Building K May 3, 2023

@Odiseo79 @dangillmor Hard agree.

@Odiseo79 @dangillmor I tend to agree, but they don’t/won’t see it that way. Integrity is becoming rare these days.

DetectiveP May 3, 2023

@Odiseo79 @dangillmor well said. Journalist are just wannabe celebrities these days.

kurt baumgartner May 3, 2023

@dangillmor @dangoodin the problem is that this alternative is not terribly mature

@kurtisj @dangillmor Under the circumstances, the lack of an equivalent alternative shouldn’t matter. I mean, is there anything that would make decent people leave Twitter? Is audience and engagement more important than anything else? I just don’t get it.

@dangoodin @kurtisj @dangillmor

An alternative which is donations-based would make sense

So u don't have to pay for a blue checks to have ur comments been seen

Hopefully sth like Mastodon will grow quickly (unlikely)

@MichaelRoth @dangoodin @kurtisj @dangillmor I don’t agree. Don’t condemn it prematurely.

@lzvolk @dangoodin @kurtisj @dangillmor

Michael Roth May 4, 2023

I consider it totally important to counter Twitter with a more humane app

But I think Mastodon is more complicated than Twitter (interface, financing of the app)

Hopefully that will change

@dangoodin @kurtisj @dangillmor Exactly. Same questions I have asked (and listed the predominant responses in a prior Toot in this thread). I don’t consider them valid enough to remain loyal to Twitter. (In my mind, remaining there=loyalty.)

kurt baumgartner May 5, 2023

@dangoodin @dangillmor yeah, i hear you. i sometimes cross-post, but mostly moved over. yeah, i think a lot of people are still there for the audience numbers. it's an established brand.

and, the branding here is pretty lame. no one wants to "toot" or "publish". layout isn't quite as nice, general meme game isn't the same...

DrFriendless 🇵🇸May 3, 2023

@kurtisj @dangillmor @dangoodin The problem is that nobody wants to be part of an alternative vanity project for brands and celebrities. If maturity makes mastodon as awful as Twitter, why have it?

@DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor Isn’t the bigger problem that people aren’t willing sacrifice something they like in order to defend fundamental principles?

1st Unoriginal Thot

May 3, 2023

@dangoodin @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor I mean, make Mastodon fun and I am sure people will flock over.

@slut @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor Are you saying that people, in particular journalists whose very avocation is threatened by the Twitter menace, should not follow a moral imperative to leave unless or until there's a place they like as much as Twitter?

DrFriendless 🇵🇸May 3, 2023

@dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor No not at all. I'm saying that journalists aren't leaving because they feel they have an audience on Twitter, be it ever so and increasingly deplorable. And because mastodon can't deliver them an audience which is centralised and captive they don't see the value in it. I feel if you ask a journalist or a politician or an advertiser to choose between morality or an audience, they will always choose the audience.

And the problem is that one of the things I love about mastodon is that I am not a captive audience for all of those egotists. And I don't wish mastodon to ever evolve into that. I would like mastodon to be a place where I follow those that I respect.

Mastodon is a peaceful village square, Twitter is Times Square where you are imprisoned in stocks and buffoons shout at you. When everyone is in the village square, what will the buffoons do?

@DrFriendless @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor Sounds like you and I agree that Twitter is a lost cause that’s beyond redemption. My question was directed instead at those who refuse to do the right thing and dump Twitter simply because there is no alternative that has the same bells and whistles.

Jarrod Frates May 3, 2023

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @NateSilver538
Is Mastodon a peaceful village square because it is inherently morally better, because it is more flexible, or because it hasn't become as popular so far?

For all the problems that could appear on Twitter, I had a curated feed that mostly (but not entirely) was comfortable. I was occasionally challenged, but I never had to deal with outright abuse. Maybe this is partly from being a cis white male, but I'm not sure how easily my name translates to that, and my avatar is a South American llama.

Jarrod Frates May 3, 2023

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @NateSilver538

Many of whose who have stuck their neck out further than I have dared have come under fire. Part of that is undoubtedly because Twitter is a single realm. There are ways for Mastodon instance operators and I think individual users to block entire other instances. But what if mastodon.social or other major server becomes a problematic instance? It's not that easy to block without losing the platform, and we have Twitter Redux.

Jarrod Frates May 3, 2023

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @NateSilver538

We have routinely seen new platforms coopted by everyone from edgelords to outright Nazis with varying levels of success, and I am skeptical that Mastodon as a platform is immune from that. It has the additional challenge that it's not hard to create an official-ish looking presence. Every time I look for someone I followed on Twitter, I get back half a dozen servers that apparently automatically repost anything tweeted by an equivalent Twitter account. It's not hard to slide in some fake stuff under that name. It's going to take a lot of work to avoid undermining the entire platform without establishing a new per-domain presence.

@jarrodfrates @DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @NateSilver538 Excellent points. It is possible to resolves some of these, yes? Especially if more supporters migrated here. Granted, 0 will never be reached, but could do better than Twitter is, and perhaps has. (Or is this ‘blind faith’ ;) )

@jarrodfrates @DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @NateSilver538

U mean the typical violence of Twitter comments is bad?

Marco Raaphorst May 3, 2023

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor “I feel if you ask a journalist or a politician or an advertiser to choose between morality or an audience, they will always choose the audience.” Good point!

@raaphorst @DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor Add scientists to that list. (And I’m a scientist, albeit frustrated by loyalty of other scientists remaining there).

Peter van Heusden (he/him) 🗿May 3, 2023

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor Mastodon might be genteel etc but the audience is still largely there. And compare Sudan conversation on Mastodon (almost nonexistent) with what's going on on Twitter (plenty analysis, people coordinate plans for aid to people in need, etc). In fact Sudan updates are one of the few reasons I open Twitter these days.

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor Twitter is a never ending bar fight.

rood May 3, 2023

@thelastpinkcar dangerous bars rarely go out of business where I live.

@thelastpinkcar @DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor

Best quote ever!

1st Unoriginal Thot

May 3, 2023

@lzvolk @thelastpinkcar @DrFriendless @dangoodin @kurtisj @dangillmor All walks of people want to be at a bar, to watch the spectacle, to engage and exchange cross-culturally. Not many people want to feel policed by hall monitors 24/7 with a bent towards a specific monoculture. Especially, when the hall monitors tend to favor a specific group of people with implicit biases.

People are multifaceted and most folks don't have one special interest. Plenty of people from Twitter I knew used it professionally while also interacting with fandoms, spoke about fashion, and followed real-time political happenings. I don't really see BTS groups going viral or queer fashion mastodon blowing up. When this point is made, it is usually disregarded by white men who are focused more so on banging their heads against compilers than questioning how people can scratch their pop culture itch in a rewarding way here.

I understand the argument of wanting to have a safe and peaceful platform to engage in, I really do. I would just beg people to have the self-awareness that they shouldn't be moralizing the usage of hellsites simply because people like to engage in the zeitgeist differently than they do.

It reeks of elitism.

@lzvolk @DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor

@DrFriendless @dangoodin @slut @kurtisj @dangillmor The “audience” card is played by many science experts, too. Which, as I mentioned earlier, removes a notch on my respect for them. (And I’m a scientist.)

@dangoodin @slut @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor

Need a donations-based alternative to Twitter

Journalists getting their share depending on how many clicks they get

@dangoodin @slut @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor it's building followers again that people hate, takes forever. Even accounts with over a million followers often have small engagement.

@dangoodin @slut @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor Again. That is a common response for staying on Twitter, even scientists. Nor, in my opinion, is it a valid justification and substitution for loyalty to the site. Loyalty to Twitter is allegiance to Musk.

@slut @dangoodin @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor

the most important is to take away the subscription for blue checks

Without it Twitter would be ok

@dangoodin @DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor I’m glad I’m not the only one that thinks this, too.

Nafopositive May 4, 2023

@DrFriendless @kurtisj @dangillmor @dangoodin I get what you're saying, and your statement has validity.

censored for “transphobia”May 3, 2023

@kurtisj @dangoodin @dangillmor The fedi’s immaturity should be an advantage. It’s an opportunity to get in on the ground floor & shape the future. News outlets should have predicted the fall of Twitter by now and they should be competing to gain influence in the #fedi. #NPR is ahead of the game but sadly only b/c twtr pushed them. /cc @DrFriendless @slut

censored for “transphobia”May 3, 2023

@slut @DrFriendless @dangillmor @dangoodin @kurtisj It would have been impressive if NPR actually took this initiative by forward thinking as a leader. But no, they were pushed.

ArtBear May 4, 2023

@koherecoWatchdog @kurtisj @dangoodin @dangillmor @DrFriendless @slut Trying to out Calckey on this account & not sure my quotepoet was also a reply, I just wanted to add:

I ran experiments where I posted on Mastodon & Twitter same posts same time. Through November December January February. I had rules to not deliberately bias results and a score system for interactions, some for a boost, more for a reply, less for a like or poll vote. I adjusted for follower counts.

I started with under 1k Mastodon followers, ended over 2k.
Started Twitter with 1.6k ended 1.3k

Each month Twitter interaction fell but was always hundreds of times less engagement on my scoring for the month. February was 500 times less.

Conclusion: Audience on Twitter is a BS mirage for ordinary sized accounts, you might as well write your thoughts on sheets of your toilet paper.

@kurtisj @dangillmor @dangoodin It does experience growing pains, but if more were here to assist and guide development, it would “mature” quicker.

pacanukeha❌ (seasonally appropriate remix)May 3, 2023

@dangillmor given his level of emotional maturity one imagines it'll be given to Nasty Porn Reviews or some such

joeyg May 3, 2023

@dangillmor clicks. Money. Eyes.

toxtethogrady May 3, 2023

@dangillmor The shareholders' meeting is in less than two weeks...
#Proposal5

Kevin Schwarz May 3, 2023

@dangillmor perhaps NPR and other respectable journalistic outfits should withdraw from Twitter

Extinction (our fate)May 3, 2023

@dangillmor

He'll have to actually steal money from them and brag about it for most of these corporate goons to stop participating in his shenanigans.

@dangillmor journalists and companies should ditch twitter, but it takes a conscience

excited for the mastodon rise May 3, 2023

@dangillmor they never will.

Other journalists can get murdered and they don't care.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650637588078665728

Phil Rees May 3, 2023

@dangillmor Any journalist still on the platform needs to remind themselves of his Pravda proposal. They might have forgotten about it. He hasn't.

His aim is to shape his audience then present their selected opinions as objective truth.

Elon Musk on Twitter

“Or maybe just X”

Twitter

Simon3P May 3, 2023

@dangillmor It blow my mind that serious people write serious things on that joke of a platform.

Any positive feedback is drowned in a sea of hate and trolling.

Walter Basil May 3, 2023

@dangillmor @brooklynmarie To get fucked themselves. That’s what.

It’s the “it won’t happen to me” mentality.