Mastodawn

BigFudge May 1, 2023

I have to let you all in on something.

At this point in my career I’m privileged to mentor a lot of young people, especially veterans and college students. And every so often they’re like really excited to meet me and say they would like to be like me. This totally blows my mind because they go to like MIT, Stanford, or Purdue ….and they’re usually in the second year of a PHD and they run their cybersecurity competition team and speak 9 languages or something….

I was a TERRIBLE youth. Yea, I eventually went to DePaul which is respectable and I have three okay undergrad degrees - merely because I had no choice but to enlist at 17 and the military kicked the crap out of me. I went to community college first the hard way around. I almost didn’t graduate from high school. I was a miserable, unhappy, uncool gnc goth kid who hacked computers and swore a lot. Those schools would have .blown their noses at my application and probably banned me from the campus for being a delinquent.

What I want to say is if you’re one of those rock star young people, I’m super impressed by you, and you’ve picked one hell of a role model. Keep it up, and don’t burn out.

If you’re that totally screwed up teenager, though, I might not get to see you at awards ceremonies and touted by the top professors at cons, but you can make it too. Even if nobody is ever in your corner.

Matt Blaze May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes Incredibly useful for people to hear. As a fellow high school dropout, I strongly endorse.

smartwatermelon

@mattblaze ➕2️⃣

catatonicprime May 1, 2023

@smartwatermelon @mattblaze ➕3️⃣

Seth Goldstein May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes thank you for this message. So many people need to hear this.

Kevin Thomas ✅May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes we, your family, think you are amazing. You bring hope to those who have less than none and contribute in ways we all benefit, every day. This cyber culture is tough and I give you an A+. For what it is worth...

spaf May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes

Yeah, I dropped out of undergrad and took a circuitous path as well. I have mostly done okay.

As an educator and parent I know that people learn in different ways, and there is no single path to success.

Awards, degrees, and spotlights are fine but sometimes they discourage the ones whose success will be measured other than conventionally. I am thankful there are people such as yourself who demonstrate there are different, workable paths, and encourage those who need it.

Nick 'The Viking'May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes

The part of you that they want to be like does not come from a fancy school, perhaps cannot be taught, but can be learned and sometimes just is.

evacide May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes I feel these feels. I just spent a couple of weeks meeting with extremely high-performing type-A students at fancy schools and the thing that I told them that seemed to resonate the most is that the job they will have in 20 years hasn't been invented yet and that it is ok to screw up or make the wrong choice or change their minds because my career has definitely not been a straight line of non-stop success.

Nicholas Weaver May 1, 2023

@evacide @hacks4pancakes
As someone who both graduated and taught at such a school, one of the big resources I have during teaching is a copy of my undergraduate transcript showing my various screwups.

Tindra May 1, 2023

@ncweaver @evacide @hacks4pancakes it took me 12 years and three colleges to get a Bachelors.

Last fall, I was trusted to teach West Point cadets an upper level course.

@evacide @hacks4pancakes One of my favorite pieces of advice for my kids is "A career is not a 30 year tunnel, it is a series of connected dots." Start somewhere and be open to opportunities.

@evacide @hacks4pancakes the experience of recovering from your screw ups and wrongs choices better equips you for the real world anyways.

Tom Isaacson May 1, 2023

@evacide @hacks4pancakes ironically I’m doing almost exactly what trained for at Uni in the 90s - embedded software. Of course we have wifi, Bluetooth, 5G and other technologies now but the core work is pretty much the same.

Stargeezer Smith May 1, 2023

@evacide @hacks4pancakes
Wise advice. I'm retired, and while I feel good about my career it isn't the career I had in mind. I had to slide, take advantage of opportunities that were in reach, and in the process I found a career that equaled the one I initially had in mind.

Thom May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes I too was a teenager that people would not have pegged to make a successful adult life. I eventually figured enough things to make it through college, but it was the military that have taught me enough to base a career on. Past is not prologue, at least not always.

@ThomM for every rock star there are 5 of us who crawled our way up.

Thom May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes appreciate your efforts to bring others along behind you.

Stormgren May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes It would be interesting to compare notes with you.

I've come up through my career without having a single credential outside of a high school diploma and dealing with crushing pre-transition depression for the last 20 years. If I can make it, lots of people can make it. 😀

Walker Boh🛡May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes given you are the most accomplished person I know, you turned it around.

Heres something you probably didn't know about me - I ended up in the computer field by dyslexia.

I always have to read things twice to pick it up, and I have a bad habit of inverting pairs of numbers in a long number (yay credit cards). These days when I submit ANY forms I always triple check the numbers.

I didn't the day I applied to University for a Physics degree. I had spent most of high school on that path.

I inverted the last two numbers of the course number (this was pre computerization where you filled out a paper form).

When I matriculated I found out I was in "Computer Science with Physics" and the rest is history.

That Anonymous Coward May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes

There are more paths to the same "place" than zero days in the history of the world.

There is no right path to get there, just the path you end up creating to get yourself there.

For every polished person you see, there are 50 'weirdos' in hoodies not making eye contact playing with a fidget spinner who are key members of team.

Believe in yourself, for thou art a badass.

Michael Olsen May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes there are so many wonderful replies and stories on here, it's been the most touching thing I've read all day!

As someone whose high school GPA was a 2.2, and who got an advanced professional degree only to abandon the field 10+ years later to start over in infosec; I want to add my voice to this chorus.

Don't let anyone tell you what you CAN'T do. I was told I wasn't smart enough in school and math specifically to have a career in computers. Computers were my true love ever since I was a teen and I was young and impressionable and that feedback from multiple sources was crushing. I took another path because of that feedback. I don't necessarily regret my path, but I wasn't as true to myself as I should have been at that critical juncture, and it's had unfortunate consequences over the years.

I'm so happy to be true to myself as I turn 40 this year and grateful for the people, like you Lesley, who've gone out of their way to tell me I CAN work in this field!

Philip Mallegol-Hansen May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes The academic system seems to do a good job at perpetuating the myth that there’s a “right” way to live life.

That undoubtedly works for, and perhaps even helps, a certain type of person. But for the rest of us, it can be a scary notion.

I hope more young people realize that it’s not true, and appreciate life for the ever changing thing that it is.

ken Taylor May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes and that is exactly why you can connect with the youth.

Phillip of Mastodon May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes I don’t have the same non-traditional background as you, but I have a lot of these same feelings, and I hope everyone out there that feels like that have a passion for this work find a place where they can act on it. They can do it.

PJ "Vote Green" Coffey May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes

They're lucky to have you. A bit if support makes a lot of difference.

Jennifer Moore 😷May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes

Thank you for thinking of the people who might not have so much faith in themself! This is a lovely message. I hope all the "screwed up" kids get to hear it from someone.

@hacks4pancakes *nodds in agreement*

Larry Carson May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes Unfortunately society is designed around cookie cutters and those that "fit in", seemingly excel in our society while others are left behind. The hard part, and not enough of us do it, is too look for those left behind and find a way to connect to them so they too can learn and "excel" in our society.

Johnnie O! | Infosec Hack May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes
FWIW, I was a high school fuck-up. Barely graduated HS, but tested so high that I got into a good college. Lots of factors made sure that didn't work out well, but a big one was me. Worked as a chef, nightclub bartender, doorman, and scrounged for rent for years. Worked for several failed startups in sysadmin, networking, etc. until I landed with you ne'er-do-wells.

For those of you who know what you want in college and go straight into it, I laud you! For the rest of us, it's totally possible and bringing different perspectives and life experiences into Security definitely has their benefits.

nic May 1, 2023

@johnnie @hacks4pancakes 2.8 GPA represent!

@johnnie @hacks4pancakes I was obsessed with computers but none of the colleges in my area offered computer science (and I didn't even know that it was a thing.) So I took a couple of math classes and then dropped out to go work a tech support job. Finally went back to college at night while supporting a family and got my AS in CS in 2015 at age 38.

Locksmith May 1, 2023

@johnnie @hacks4pancakes I was always a good student, but at the end of HS, I was fed up. Wanted to work and not college life, then I went into commerce. I spent a decade in that career, but I always felt I was missing something. I read, studied a lot, but I wanted more math. More science. Academia was missing from me... I finally went back to college at almost 30, electronics engineering.
I was so eager that I basically devoured the course. I read the textbooks, and then the additional textbooks. I would ask the professors for extra material and would discuss the subjects with them after class. They enjoyed it. Aced it all. The university hired me as adjunct right after graduation, and I went straight to Masters. And after Masters, I went straight to PhD.
A more interesting story is that of my wife (whom I met at Masters), who went along with me and finished her PhD before me, concomitant with having a job and a newborn.

Peanutbutter Hackers🏳️‍🌈May 1, 2023

@johnnie @hacks4pancakes this is me too.

SIEM Shady May 1, 2023

@johnnie @hacks4pancakes Was in a similar spot. I worked 20-39 hours a week in high school, so I didn't do any homework. Had a perfect 2.000 GPA. Test scores were good so I got calls from schools, but grades meant scholarships were impossible.

Military was the only option with no money for school. Ended up on the Dean's list after switching from active to reserve, landing a full time IT job, and going to night school.

A bit envious of a few high-performing interns I've taken on over the years. They landed great first jobs after graduation.

Lee May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes This is one of the best threads I've come across lately. I also have had a very meandering path and was told I'm no good at math (grade 10). I was also somewhat of a little s***. This put me way back, in later adulthood several years were spent upgrading. Now I have both a degree and a diploma.

David A. Pirata Informático

@hacks4pancakes Careers are journeys. I have 2 Fs on college transcripts and have attended 5 colleges, pursued 6 different majors, attended school part time or full time for 9 years after graduating HS.

I was smart enough to sleep through a good portion of the classes during my first 2 years of college and undisciplined enough to complete anything.

JamesB May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes
I have no qualifications in what I do. It's not Infosec but still an area where you're expected to have degrees and stuff.

I fucked around too much when I was younger. Still managed to get a career. I think if you're good at what you do you'll end up fine. YMMV. I regret nothing.

HTTP 1.1/418 Teapot May 1, 2023

@hacks4pancakes I saw a sticker on someone's laptop with a cartoon of a flaming dumpster in a circle and written around the outside was "The strongest steel is forged in the hottest dumpster fires"