A polite reminder to people on here who like to proclaim:
"At this point if you're still on Twitter you are [some variant of horrible person]"
If you are a small creator - artist, writer, whatever - then right now Mastodon DOES NOT deliver equivalent reach-based income. People do not tip as much and the lack of QT significantly damages creator reach.
Being able to forsake income is a privilege. Your options are not someone else's options. Please be open-minded to that.
At some point soon, time allowing, I want to write something about the differences between creator reach, interactions and revenue on Twitter Vs Mastodon. I'm aware that as a digital strategist AND ALSO a creator with a platform on both I am relatively uniquely placed to do so.
But trust me, the spaces are not equivalent. Perfectly valid design decisions here do have negative impacts as a small creator dependent on reach.
There are absolutely ways that Mastodon could correct this. The biggest being:
1) Supporting, rather than being hostile to, threading
2) OPT IN for "I will let my quotes be tweeted"
Both would have a SIGNIFICANT positive impact for small creators.
There are also perfectly valid community reasons not to do both. But if, as a federated platform, it decides that's not in its best interest than it needs to be acknowledged that it's also a choice not to make Mastodon small creator revenue friendly
While it DOESN'T support those things though, which is a conscious platform choice, do try to remember that the opportunity for your favourite creator - artist, writer, maker, whatever - to switch to here as their primarily presence are limited.
And for it to be their ONLY presence simply isn't viable, for most.
I appreciate this isn't a thing people are openly saying. I appreciate I am a "first wave" Twitter exile here.
But I like to think my behaviour and posting here has shown how much I've enjoyed and embraced this platform.
And part of that is wanting to see others like me, but more reliant on marginal creator income, find a home here too.
And that's just not possible for so many small creators on Twitter I love right now, who would make Mastodon sing even more than it does already.
@garius It may be a *unique* opportunity for small time creators. There’s a pretty good sized audience here who wants more content, and not that many creators.
It’s not as large and diverse as Twitter, but there’s a lot of people actively looking for new accounts to follow, and there can be advantages to being one of the first here.
That said, adding another network to keep up with is more work, but maybe worth trying out
@scm as one of those first-movers you describe:
No. It doesn't translate. Empirically, the ROI right now is much less - even adjusted for scale. For the reasons I laid out in the thread.
@garius I didn’t mean to come off as telling you you’re wrong 😅
I have another account, and I’ve found it fairly easy to pick up followers, but, importantly, it’s not a business, it doesn’t need to make money.
It’s interesting, but disappointing that doesn’t translate to being worth it for creators. But, like you say, important features are missing. It also matters if the audience you want is even here, it’s not as diverse as the larger networks.
People like you making the case for those features seems valuable though, I hope you get the time to write more 🙂
@scm i think that's all i'm trying to flag really.
There's a sort of optimism that the feature set that already exists is enough. A sort of:
"this is virgin territory! if you build it, they will come!"
hopefulness that's understandable. I just want to flag that the evidence for that SO FAR is limited.
Which is fine!
i just think that needs flagging now, rather than it being a subject of hand-wringing over a missed opportunity to do something extra-special in future.
@garius Yeah, first-moving isn’t a guaranteed win, it’s always a gamble.
It’ll be interesting to see how things evolve. I don’t follow it closely, but it sounds like there’s been some talk about supporting quotes
It seems like it has to get better or people will move on, but it’s likely to be a rough ride as this space matures
@garius I mean, I see where you're coming from, but if my income relied on the continuing existence of Twitter then wow, I would be panicking hard right now.
That's more important than the moralistic thing you see here sometimes I think.
@mwl @tomw well that really just adds to my point.
I know a LOT of small creators who ARE panicking. And the fact they don't see Mastodon as a viable solo lifeboat should be seen as evidence that it isn't.
And therefore they shouldn't be judged for that, if it's the result of active (and reasonable in context) design decisions here.
@tomw @mwl no, it's design decisions as well.
Honestly, i've been here long enough now - and had 'viral' content on both platforms - to see how different the interactions can be.
Short version is that validation of quality by a friendly QT REALLY matters for small creators looking to build reach, be visible and convert customers.
So the (valid) lack of that to limit bad habits here, has a disproportionately negative impact on small creators as an unfortunate side-effect.
@tomw @mwl i'm not. honestly. remember this is lived experience for me.
And it's not purely a large-to-small relationship. indeed those are arguably a very mixed bag (a LOT of bot or low-value follows. big noise-to-signal ratio).
It's follower of small-to-mid follower validations that have serious conversion value - either as a direct sale/tip, or a follow from someone whose interests you were relevant to but was unaware before.
@lispi314 @mwl @tomw to give you a serious answer:
It definitely helps, but it's basically a human behaviour thing. The benefit of a quote on twitter is that the flow is:
1) quoter clicks button
2) adds text
3) hits post
So it's a low impact, quick action. Thus more people do it.
And the benefit to the reader is they see the full text/images of the quoted post. There's no click through required.
More convenient/visual = more interaction, basically.
@Zach777 @tomw @mwl not really. Too many steps. It's about highlighting in the spur of the moment with minimum clicks.
I completely agree that QTing can be hugely toxic btw. It's why i think not having them is an absolutely valid design decision.
I'm just pointing out that it's one of the things that contributes to Mastodon not being hugely productive for small creators right now. It's an unfortunate side-effect.
@Zach777 @tomw @mwl it would definitely be a start.
The key thing is making it much clearer WHO boosted and that they really, really think you should look at a thing.
But the issue then potentially becomes people just doing that instead of a regular boost.
Like I say, I do think it's totally solvable with thought though.
@garius @mwl @tomw I deeply, deeply hope this will teach is what chokepoint capitalism is & why it can't be allowed to continue.
It's like if we'd built an entire economy around a global string of prime location strip malls where everyone both works & shops, and then one day a new owner turned the entire chain into a literal Nazi clubhouses, but nobody had any choice but to keep working/shopping there...
@tomw @garius Whilst it continues to exist and the communities are there, we have to continue to maintain a presence. Twitter is one of our top referrers. Mastodon doesn't feature.
We do have a presence on Mastodon @Press_Peregrine and try to keep this up to date.
Ultimately, we'll have to go where the crowd does. Hopefully that's over here in time.
@tomw @garius @Press_Peregrine Who knows.
The community we work with and serve exists in other places, existed long before the internet and will continue to exist. As I say, we'll just have to go where they go.
If we stopped using Twitter now we would destroy our business. If Twitter implodes it would impact us, but we'd move on.
@mxfraud no. i didn't.
I described myself as a "first wave" Twitter exile.
As in when Musk started Musking.
Indeed if you pop over to Twitter from that time, you'll see I wrote the viral post there about why it was important creators consider moving and some ways to maintain a dual presence while being considerate of the community as it already existed.
So whatever 'gotcha' you think your comment represents. It isn't.
If you disagree with my points, just be open and say so.
@garius I mean, labeling your self first wave is just funny when there has been many waves before, just not due to a change that impacted you, hence it is your first wave.
I might disagree on the other points you make but I don't really care to discuss that, plus I'm not a small creator anyway.
I just found the first wave bit spicy
@garius Mastodon is an open source project. It's entirely possible to fork it and produce a version which does these things, and indeed there are groups working on variants.
Further, the protocol on which it runs, #ActivityStreams is an open protocol and it's entirely possible to build alternative but interoperable implementations – and again, groups are doing that too.
It might be worth your while finding the right group and rallying people behind it.
@simon_brooke I understand how Open Source works. I've been involved in a few things over the years.
But - bluntly - I don't have the time. And, realistically, most small creators don't have the time or the knowledge to participate in open source projects to that level. Both are a privilege, in a way.
This kind of stuff has ALWAYS been a flaw in the OS approach, despite it's significant benefits.
Hence why I'm just saying to peeps: be mindful. This ISN'T a small creator-friendly platform rn.
@garius I don't think I know what a "QT" really is, in the world you have come from. Could you please explain just what it is, also in terms of how it assists the creator community you want to help?
It might not be obvious, but some fediverse tools do seem to have a "QT" feature; and if what you're wanting is "a link to someone's previous post, but not a reply to it" then you can fight with the UI to achieve that; but the results are often disjoint enough that it probably doesn't achieve the outcome you might want. Hence the question, what do you define "QT" as?
@yojimbo ultimately, it's what it is on Twitter. An comment on another post with an inline, clickable display of the post being commented on.
For why it's disproportionately valuable to small creators, see some of my replies to others who've asked. It provides both validation and reach, basically.
@garius I don't know what Twitter does, which is why I'm asking :-)
I suspect you know this already, but it might be worth saying ...
I can include an explicit link to your post, and it's up to your client to decide what so do with it. The UI for doing this is different from "reply" and isn't obvious.
Plain Mastodon behaves differently from forks like Hometown, Glitchsoc and so on. It also renders differently from the various app clients for Mastodon, and of course is different again from the many non-Mastodon fediverse services like Pleroma, Akkoma and oh so many others.
Some of these will already have the "QT" functionality that you want.
But I suspect that isn't enough, you aren't actually asking for you to have this UI option, are you? That's not going to help creators, they're not going to benefit by QTing their own posts anyway. You're asking for everyone else to have this UI by default, I think.
I'm not sure I've completely understood why a simple Reply to a post saying "this is cool" isn't visible enough. Here, I might be misunderstanding Mastodon myself ... I often see middle-of-conversation replies in my feed, from people that I follow, and if they look interesting it seems easy enough to click on the thread and see what it is.
But I do think you're only really looking for a different UI gloss over the features that are already present.
@[email protected] ultimately, it's what it is on Twitter. An comment on another post with an inline, clickable display of the post being commented on. For why it's disproportionately valuable to small creators, see some of my replies to others who've asked. It provides both validation and reach, basically.
@yojimbo yes - in a nutshell what i'm saying is that it has to be a default UX thing or it doesn't deliver the required value.
People don't click through. And they demonstrably don't engage in the same way with a reply-to-a-good-thing to a quoted-good-thing.
The former requires being interested enough to take proactive actions to establish context. The latter comes with the context pre-provided.
@garius Excellent, I'm glad I was able to understand what you meant 🙂
I'm pretty sure that the only way to achieve that goal is to go back to ActivityPub itself, and try to align your goals with the core verbs that they have. There might be some latitude there so add something like a "Promote" verb, that's distinct from the existing features. If that gets accepted, then each of the AP services get to decide how to present that verb in their UI - if at all.
@yojimbo yup. that may well be the case.
Ultimately, I'm not saying:
"It MUST change to be like this!"
Simply flagging that there's a needs mismatch right now. So judging people on the basis that they haven't given up on a product that still meets their needs for one that doesn't is unnecessarily harsh.
@garius Actually, "judging people" is something we should try to limit in general.
Promoting Mastodon by saying "it's an alternative to Twitter" is too much like saying "it's an equivalent to Twitter in all respects", which just isn't correct. In any case, that's what the audience will probably assume.
Mastodon/fediverse is an alternative to some of the things that Twitter does. But never all of them.
I would appreciate seeing those results!
It's hard to know how to start building reach. I never had a strong Twitter presence, but am curious about suggestions on how to build a strong Fediverse one, especially given the limitations (no QT) it has.
I've been thinking, a lot, about digital strategy, so any wisdom/guidance/suggestion is appreciated.
Best guess: leaving Twitter cut the Kickstarter on my most recent book by about 50%.
(Yes, yes, comparing one creative project to another is absolute foolishness, for reasons we both know. But I've run a few kickstarters and published many books, and this seems a decent back-of-the-envelope guess.)
I made the decision to leave Twitter with open eyes, knowing it would have a cost. But quite a few folks said they were remaining on Twitter specifically to get updates from me, so I decided to leave.
My bills are still being met, but I'm in the top 10% of writers.
LOTS of folks can't afford that.
@mwl my best guess so far is that a 'viral' thread on here will deliver me better interactions, but 1/3 of the revenue adjusted for boosts etc.
I do legit want to do a proper piece on this at some point. I very much enjoy Mastodon but I worry it's sleepwalking into a creativity cap that disproportionately impacts small creators who would be a wonderful part of this community.
Alright to ping you at some point about your experience, for that write-up?
Roughly matches my experience, I'd say. Much, MUCH better interactions, but Twitter seems to be where the rich folks hang out.
It might also have to do with my blocking. First thing I did when setting up my instance was block Gab and company. I'm surprised (and disappointed) at how many of my Twitter followers have fedi accounts in that space.
Ping me away!
@garius really useful thoughts, thank you. hope it's OK to tag in the main mod etc of my home instance - @jaz - as it's worth discussing...
(personally I also think getting notifications about reactions/replies to other's posts you've reposted would be a positive thing for engagement, or at least I'm unaware of the downsides to that, but obs not a 'big' account at all...)
@ardouglass then good for you.
AS LONG AS you're not also criticising people who are still on Twitter - because they require a platform that does deliver those options - for staying there.
As I make clear multiple times in the replies. I'm not criticising. It's a valid design choice.
I'm simply saying that those who wish to castigate creators for not migrating and closing Twitter accounts need to accept there's a reason why Mastodon doesn't fill the same gap for them.
@garius
Mastodon people: our network is great, we designed it to minimise interactions and virality.
People who need to maximise interactions and virality: uhhhh... That's sounds not great.
MP: you're a bad person!
P: ...
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